Sitting down during walks and then some

[Will I Am]

My boy is 3 1/2 months old. Lately (last few weeks) when i take him on walks he decides to sit down. I need to physically get him going again only to have him do the same thing a few moments later. Now, this is certainly better than going wild and crazy on walks but still an irritation. Does anybody have experience with this problem? It might be more tolerable if the temperature outside was not 15 degrees.

Not to confuse those who may reply with suggestions, but i have a secondary but related issue. Whereas he is pretty mellow (hence the sitting during walks) he will still "pull" and "lunge" on the leash if there is stimuli (cars, dogs, etc.). Last night i bought him a "Gentle Leader Collar". I have had it only 24 hours but it certainly seems to help the pulling. However, he constantly dives on the ground and tries to rub the collar off with his paws or the ground. Will this end? So now i have a dog that sits arbitrarily throughout the walk and tries to rub off his new collar. As you see, i am experiencing both ends of the spectrum on these walks.

Anybody?

[Adina P]

My boy is 3 1/2 months old.
I think this is the key factor in all of it. Your puppy is still very young, it is extremely rare for a puppy this age to walk on a leash the way a well trained adult dog walks on a leash. Remember wearing collars and leashes is not a natural thing for a dog--walking in this straight path down a sidewalk is not necessarily how a dog would walk normally in nature. So your puppy is perfectly normal, and although frustrating for you as a human, I would not expect much more at this time.

Of course that doesn't mean that you don't train him and work on things, it just means you need to set your expectations lower. We as humans have this plan that we will walk so many miles down the sidewalk and then come home. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable thing to ask of a puppy. But it's not. At least not for the length that we would like. If you're going out just for the sake of exercise, I would put a 15 foot light leash on the dog and walk out in the middle of a field or large area where you don't have to walk straight in one direction. Since your puppy has not completed its shots, at this age where you go will be limited for the sake of his not catching diseases like parvo. So you may have to hold off on this idea for a few more weeks. But essentially, if you're going out for the sake of exercise don't expect to walk this long straight line--not without issues with a three and half month old puppy. Go somewhere wide and open where you can walk all different directions and play and run and make it a fun outing.

If your goal with the walks is to teach your puppy how to walk nicely on leash, you will need to make it a very short distance with a lot of teaching the whole time. Start with just your sidewalk in front of your house. Have treats out and in your pocket. Go a few steps at a time and aim for successfully walking without puppy stopping or pulling. Go back and forth in front of your house for 5 minutes and then end the training session because longer than that is just too much for your puppy's attention span at this age.

If it's too cold--can you play in the backyard? Toss some toys or balls for him to chase or crate some games--do some indoor training, puppy pushups (sit followed by down followed by sit followed by down...), Et cetera.

Last night i bought him a "Gentle Leader Collar". I have had it only 24 hours but it certainly seems to help the pulling. However, he constantly dives on the ground and tries to rub the collar off with his paws or the ground.

Did your gentle leader collar come with a video? Typically, it's recommended that you take about a week to acclimate the dog to the collar. This means showing the dogs the collar and giving it a piece of cheese... And repeating that throughout the day so that when it sees the collar it gets happy because the collar predicts cheese! And then getting the dog to put his nose through the loop in order to get the cheese--again repeating that throughout the day. By this time the dog should be very happy to come near you when he sees the collar. Here is a link to show how this is done:
http://abrionline.org/videos.php -- look for the video titled "Conditioning an Emotional Response" but there are other good ones about the GL.

I have not used the gentle leader but I used a similar had collar (halti) and my dog hated it too--it became more difficult to walk him with that on than with just a regular collar. Some dogs take to it very well after that week to two week acclamation. But not all. If you keep your grip on the leash closer to his head (vs. leaving him a whole 6 feet to do with as he pleases) you'll have more control and he will not be able to reach the ground to try to rub it off.

[Will I Am]

Very good points. The sitting and not moving thing is a bit interesting. Given his age and the vaccinations issue, these are more potty walks in our yard. After next weeks final vaccinationss i plan on taking him to more open fields and let him romp away.

[Adina P]

Did you get the part about the GL? I am only asking as I added that after I'd already submitted the first part...if you read it early on you may not have seen it...that's all...I sound so pushy! LOL =)

[Will I Am]

I just read it (must have missed it the first time). That is a good idea and makes sense. Like i said, i have only had it a day so i will try to acclimate him to the collar with these suggestions in mind.

Thanks

[Zoe, Benny and Tyler]

Hi there, when I got Benny he was 4 months and he accepted collar and leash immediately although he didn't know it before. But we had the same issues that he was suddenly sitting down during the walks. Remember, your puppy is still that young and you shouldn't go on long walks anyway. I had the feeling that Benny was just testing out who the boss was and if he didn't get up by himself I gently helped him by lifting him up. Then he started walking again. After a few weeks he didn't do it anymore and just grew out of it. Give your small puppy some time.

[Sandy]

I expected way too much of Toby way too early in his young life. Adina's points are all valid, and she helped me out considerably through Toby's younger childhood days. :) One thing I tried to get Toby walking was to have a long wooden spoon with peanut butter on it. I'd had more peanut butter in a ziploc bag with me. When Toby wanted to stop, I'd hold out the wooden spoon, and he'd lick it as he walked along. It taught him to walk along when he had his leash on.

[Adrianne Matzkin]

Samantha did the same thing with the Gentle Leader but instead of rubbing her face on the ground, anyone who stopped to say hello to her she would rub her face in between their legs and move up to their crotch. Not too embarrassing! Only one woman didnt stop her and I immediately scrubbed Samantha's face LOL LOL!!

I think it is very age appropriate not wanting to walk nicely on a leash at 3 1/2 months old. We did lots of practicing in the house, on our driveway and in the yard. She didn't have much of a problem when we were in familiar surroundings but when we took that extra step and walked a little down the street, everything moving made her stop and decide if was an enemy. That 1 house seemed to take forever to walk to and back. Don't be discouraged he will 'get it'. As my very wise mother told me many years ago - the Human Kids will not walk down the aisle sucking their thumb and carrying their security blanket! It all comes with patience, time and practice (and extra treats didn't hurt either).
I used cheese only for the new and difficult training. That made the cheese soooo special Samantha wouldn't hesitate doing what she was asked to do.

[Joy Originator of GiantSchnoodles]

Pulling Dogs
How to prevent a dog from pulling on the leash. I have chronic pain in my arms. I walk 4 dogs at once, one of them being a 100 lb giant schnauzer, so finding a solution to pulling dogs is survival to me. I use a halti because in case of emerency (squirrel, cat running by etc) if you have control of the dog’s head, you have control of your dog. I prefer a halti to a gentle leader because the weight of the clamp on the gentle leader as it swings, gives the dog signals that I may not intend. So I prefer a halti.

Problem:

We just took Libby to a church fair and my hand is rubbed raw from her pulling on her leash. What is everyone's advice on pulling? How do I best train her to walk nicely on a leash? She does okay on walks if it's just me and her, but if the kids ride their bikes or walk ahead, she pulls the whole time to try to keep up with them. Today at the fair she nearly pulled me off my feet everytime she saw another dog or a child or anything else she found interesting. Should I just try to train her to walk nicely, or should I use one of those halti leashes that go around their noses? I don't want to do anything to hurt her, and I don't want to have to use a training leash forever, but I want to be able to take her places with me and be well-behaved (and not have to go home and bandage my hands!). I'd appreciate anyone's advice!

Method 1:
Have yummy treats in a fanny pack.
As your walking say – loose leash – give treat. As she comes toward you say – good loose leash - Walk some more. – loose leash – give treat – Good loose leash - . Walk some more. When she pulls say – uh uh loose leash – treat – good loose leash – In a couple of days after a few walks, she will be looking for a treat when you say – loose leash – This will stop her from pulling. Eventually, she will realize that pulling is not okay, loose leash is. After walking her once a day for a couple of weeks using this method, you can reduce the treats giving them on a variable basis. If you remember behavioral psych 101, you know that variable contingencies of reinforcement are harder to extinguish than either consistent positive reinforcement or consistent negative reinforcement. You will always say – good loose leash – to keep up the training, but you will only treat intermittently. Timing is everything in this training. You must say uh uh right at the time she’s pulling and stop when she stops pulling or don’t say it at all. The words – loose leash – will eventually be associated with her halti or collar being loose even though in the beginning it is associated with a treat. Either way it will be easier on your hands and arms.


Method 2: This method works best if your dog is clicker trained. There are several steps to teaching this.
First of all, I teach the dog to back up.
1. Have the dog in front of you facing you. Take a step forward into your dog. She will be forced to make a small movement back away from you. Click and treat. I also like to say – back.- - good back -
2. Practice backing up with more steps back each time. Don’t forget you are starting with a small movement backward and rewarding it. Then you will click and treat one foot moving backward. Eventually you will reward a whole step back. Then you’ll ask for 2 steps back and so on. Don’t expect your dog to learn it all at one time. But if your dog is well trained in click and treat, you will probably be able to teach it in about 10 sessions of 10- minutes a session. Then you can rhumba with your dog!
3. When your dog is backing up reliably, on command and doing a really great rhumba, put our dog in a heel position and say “back” while you take a step back in a heel position. It helps to do this with a fence on her left side so she has to back up straight.
4. Once your dog has learned to back up in a heel position, you can use this command to prevent pulling on the leash
5. Put your dog in a heel position on your left side. Bring the leash behind over your butt, holding it in your right hand. Any time you feel the leash tighten on your butt, take a step back and give the back command. After a few walks your dog will learn that any time she pulls, she will be going backward. Eventually, she will stop pulling. Your neighbors may wonder about your forward and backward dance down the street, but your dog will be trained.
Lori and Skye
Skye is officially a teenager and doesn't listen to me
Sun Jul 2, 2006 09:58
64.12.116.133

when she sees another person or dog..she pulls full steam ahead unless I make her sit/stay (she is usually good about that) but when she gets to the person or dog she is becoming wild and will not sit etc. Will the teenage phase pass and one day she'll behave or will this become a habit? What is the best way to get through to her. Help and thanks! :)

ps - she is very obedient without people/dog distractions.

No, don’t wait for her to grow out of it. Work on it now. Waiting is just training her to do more of this behavior. Most people get this kind of behavior when they are not clear on their own intentions thus not giving clear commands to the dog. Most people do not use corrections appropriately. They will give the dog permission to visit but will give a correction by pulling back on the leash which should be only done for corrections. This results in several problems:
1. There is an issue of body language with dogs are on leash. Very often we let them go up to each other but pull back on the leash. The dog that is being pulled back will often be attacked by an aggressive dog because of the body language that represents to the other dog. I had a lady with a lovely bearded collie tell me that her dog is constantly being attacked by other dogs. I pointed out that when her dog was greeting my dog, she was pulling back on her dogs leash. She said she was doing that because her dog was always being attacked. I tried to explain that pulling the dog back was causing the attacks because of the body language that causes in her dog. She wasn’t open to input. She still goes to the dog park and her dog gets attacked.
2. The second thing pulling back on the leash does is give the dog a mixed message. The dog has permission to visit the dog or person but is getting a correction by being pulled by the leash, corrected, told to sit when your dog thinks she has permission to play and more.

Solution: Either let the dog play or don’t. You can’t be ambivalent about it. Clear intentions in your own mind help you give clear directives to your dog. This is extremely important. This happens to me every day as I always have a service dog with me. The dog must not approach a person or dog even if the person or dog is approaching my dog. However if I say – say hello – She will immediately get up and go to the person or dog. I am in control at all times. I am the benevolent dictator giving clear concise messages. So once you have your dog trained as above, put your dog in a sit stay. Then greet on command or give her permission to play. Once permission is given let her on a loose leash until you decide it is time to stop. Then go back to the above training. Give her a clear comand - sit, back - or whatever your command is and treat. Combining your clear message with the training as described above should solve your problem within 2 weeks of 5 minutes twice a day training. Please let me know how this works for you. Puppy love from Joy & furry folk www.giantschnoodles.com
Lori and Skye
Thank you so much Joy! I will start immediately..I think it
Sun Jul 2, 2006 11:09
64.12.116.10

will take quite a bit of time to train her to ignore another dog..especially the ones she knows. You know how friendly doodles are! I totally understand now about the mixed message I'm sending her by pulling her back and then letting her go to the dog/person. Actually, in our obedience class, the trainer says to just "say hello" and leave. Of course, I have to have a long-winded conversation with neighbors etc! :) I really appreciate all of your input and I'll let you know how it is going.

Lori

Copyright Joy de la Ren Permission to copy only with permission of author

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Hi there - welcome to puppyhood. Mostly I agree with Adina. Don't expect much in the way of a "walk" at 3-4 months. Potty walks are more like potty leads. You are just attached to the other end of the lead as the puppy wanders around your yard looking for a good place to go - or not. I have always had success leaving the collar and a long line ( just a lenght of light weight cord about 8-10 feet long ) on my puppies all the time, except when I am not home and they are crated. I also use this line to tie them to me or very near me until they are 6 -8 months old. I make several out of soft washable cotton or nylon cording so they can be washed as the line gets pretty dirty. Never ever ever leave the line on unless you are right there.This way the puppy gets used to the collar and line very quickly. Walking with you following, then suggesting following with treats goes pretty quickly and soon you can give up the treat. I have never had the least bit of success with a gentle leader, so I am no help to you there. Patience and easy laughter will get you through a lot.

[Leslie, Dexter & Kirby]

I experienced the exact same things with Dexter as a young puppy. He would sit down and just refuse to move. I'm embarassed to admit I physically carried him home a few times (and he was always a big puppy!!). He just overcame this with age. Probably by 5 months old he stopped the refusal to walk.

We use the GL with both dogs, but we didn't introduce it until they were 1.5 yrs old. Neither Dex or Kirby hated it too much, but they were also older. I agree with the others - work up to it slowly and feed him treats when he has it on. Put it on him when he's in the house and play fetch with it on. Basically make it a happy experience. IMO the GL works wonderfully - it helped a ton with the pulling!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

We have used both the Gentle Leader and the Halti for our Springer. He HATES both and spends his entire walk rubbing his face. He is five and has done this since he was a puppy. He walks great off leash and pulls using a regular or corrective collar. I do know other people's dogs who have gotten used to either Gently Leader or Halti eventually. Gordie just hasn't and I say, "Too bad, buddy!" and use it anyway when I need to walk him on a leash.