What do you think about this breeder- Lakeshore Doodles?

[K Frey]

You guys have been so good about giving me wonderful advice. I have another issue I need some help with. I 've been looking at this breeder in NY called Lakeshore Doodles. Here's their website http://www.fortheloveofdoodles.com/index.html It's a family breeder. I've talked to them several times and they are very responsive with all of my questions. One of the things that has me a little hesitant is that the mom of the litter that we're interested in has not been health tested. I was told that she has had litters before, and all of the pups have been healthy. The dad has had some health testing done and is all clear. They offer a 2 year health guarantee too. What do you think?

[Adina P]

I don't know this breeder from Adam and Eve. But here is what I'd say to any breeder inquiry:

Forget the whole 'family breeder' term as being anything meaningful. There are lots of families in the world...some breed their dogs some don't. There are lots of breeders in the world...some have big families some just husband/wife or maybe a baby or maybe a single woman/man. NONE of that matters. There are people with families that breed that do a good job. There are people with families that breed that do a not-so-good job. There are people without families that can do either a good or bad job of breeding. Being a 'family' really should not be a plus or minus as it makes no difference to whether breeding is done responsibly. It sounds 'nice' but is meaningless. So judge the breeder by the program not whether or not they have a 'family.'

Okay that said...health testing is always ideal. Less health testing is less ideal and you'll have to decide whether the price is worth what is being offered.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

In my opinion, even a 2 year health guarantee is only worth the paper it is written on...Why you might ask...well it is clear that most congenitial disease that a dog will inherit will not show up till past it's 2nd birthday, and you can always wind up with a puppy that will come down with something no matter how much testing is done on the parents and warranty's are given. What makes a breeder or does not make a breeder is if you go back to them in 3 to 4 years, having spent all the time in the world and money on Vet care for this dog, and tell them, your dog is a carrier of hip dysplasia and that breeder turns around and helps you with that surgery, or gives you a refund on that dog. Again you also have to take into effect there are now some states who carry the puppy lemon law, and you would also have to see if that would stand for your pup if buying from out of state. Most puppy lemon laws only cover a dog till it is 6 months of age, again leaving out any congenital diseases a puppy could come down with at past age 2. Best thing you can do is negotiate the terms of sales with the breeder/get it in writting just in case you need to do something legally.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I would strongly advise you to read this discussion; the doodle was purchased from a "family" breeder who did not do health testing:
http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/our-breeders-response-to

And these discussions by Adina on what to look for in a breeder:

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/potential-health-problems-in

http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/what-to-look-for-in-a

Asking what anyone in a forum thinks of a particular breeder is really not going to be much help to you. People who purchased dogs from there and have not experienced any problems will give you good feedback; people who had a bad experience will probably be hesitant to say so in a public forum. Besides which, most serious problems in dogs develop after a dog is 2 years old, so the fact that someone has a puppy who appears to be healthy doesn't mean much.
This is a purchase that involves a living creature who is going to live in your home with your family for 12-16 years, and who is going to become a very important part of your life. As the owner of a dog with health problems, I can tell you that there is nothing in the world- not a great recommendation, not a friendly responsive breeder, not a convenient location, not a litter at the right time in the right color at the right price, not if they were giving the dog away free , not anything- that would entice me to buy a puppy from parents who have not been health-tested. It is simply not worth the heartache.

[Ginny Nightingale]

I have heard good things about them from another breeder they work with, but I would have to add that not all breeders are doing the thorough testing that AKC breeders do. This may not mean anything to the average person who just wants a dog as a pet who has not intention of breeding the dog, but it does increase the chances that the dog will have eye, hip or elbow issues.
Some doodle breeders, however, are using the same testing that they would do with their AKC breeds as a way fo weeding out genetic weaknesses in doodles--I personally think that that is important and I applaud their efforts to make this a healthy group of doods! My ALD has been tested and will hopefully pass future tests and be bred, but my other doodle was spayed after we found a slight dysplasia in her hips. I am sure that other people would have bred her for her gorgeous red color!!

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

Yea yea that is what they all say... RUN far and fast. There is NO reason not to health test. I mean honestly they have already had 2 litters with her, they could have at least spent the money from the first litter she had to health test her! This is not a good situation. This breeder's comments are laughable! If this dog has already had 2 litters I would assume the oldest puppy from her is 2 at best 1; most genetic illnesses don't show up until after 2. She has no clue if her dogs are healthy or not.

Think for one minute
If she wont even fork over the money to health test her dogs do you think she is going to fork it back over to you when your dog is diagnosed with an issue. That really isn't a question~

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

There are a lot of great breeders who health test. Why would you chance it? There are no guarantees ofcourse, but it seems like it lessens the possibility of later issues if you have a clean bill of health from both parents. You'd think SHE'd (breeder)want to know before creating any problems later for all the pups and thier buyers. You are smart to be hesitant. Listen to that inner voice!!!

[Susan Crespo]

I can only tell you that I had put a deposit down with them and then I found doodlekisses. I got some really good information on this site and the fact that only one of the parents was health tested was very concerning to me. I also found out that the dogs are not raised inside their home. They have a kennel (if that's what it's called) outside of their home with several litters at a time.
She was nice enough to give me my deposit back so I really appreciated that. I did subsequently find a terrific breeder and I have the most wonderful pup now. It was worth going through the whole shipping thing to get a better quality pup. Hope this helps.

[Susan Crespo]

Jenel I did ask her that question and her answer was that the mother was too young to be tested. Now I'm not sure how the whole breeding thing works but I guess you have to be a certain age to get tested. I'm curious as of this litter which parent is not tested? It seems lakeshore always has only one parent that is tested I don't know why that is.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Why would she even breed a dog who was too young to be tested? What's the big hurry? There are also some genetic diseases for which there are no tests, but which show up in the dog before the age of two or three. If the mother was that young, why breed her at all?

[Adina P]

I don't know if anything has changed YET, but in the past, OFA (one of the two major hip testing organizations of the USA) didn't certify hips till age 2. They would do preliminary testing prior to that but the results weren't official or certifiable. I have heard in the past year that they have either changed or will change to certifying hips at a younger age because research shows the results are just as predictive.

On the other hand PennHIP (which tests a different aspect of hip quality/health) will do testing on a pup as young as 16 weeks and this is considered useful and predictive.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Why does anyone have to breed a dog younger than 2 years old?

[Adina P]

I'm not saying it should or should not be done. I'm just explaining the two hip testing options. I know some breeders will test their pups early to see if they are worth keeping as breeders and thus it is useful for them to have PennHIP available and then they can rule out candidates not suitable for breeding early on.