Losing it with Lupin

[Bridget and Lupin]

We just had a rough 30 mins with Lupin, so I'm going to unload a little bit here. 

Any time the front door is open, and she gets the chance, she bolts.  Usually we are pretty vigilant bc my little boy was so traumatized by it the first time it happened (I'm talking balls out hysterics on his part bc he thought we would lose her)....now every time someone knocks on the door he is frantically putting Lupin in her crate.  Well, tonight she saw her chance and she took it.  She was up and down and around the block, including stopping traffic in the street (thank goodness we live in a quiet neighborhood) attracting the attention of a million neighbors who were out for runs/walks with their obedient dogs/gardening/what have you.  It took a family walking their dog to come in our back yard to lure her back.  Nothing else worked...not treats, not turkey, not her leash, not coaxing...nothing.  If the neighbors hadn't helped, she'd be in the next county by now. 

My husband and I have HAD IT with her.  She has had 2 rounds of doggy classes and an expensive private in-home trainer and NOTHING works.  It doesn't matter how much we work with her.  She still barks, jumps up on people, mouths people's hands and ankles and won't come when called.  She's 1.5 yrs on July 18th, and everyone says this is normal puppy behavior that she'll outgrow, but I have my doubts.  The flat out in-your-face disobedience is galling and infuriating, but what really p***** me off is how it affects my son.  He loves her as much as the huz and I loathe her, and when she runs away like that he is hysterical with worry and fear. 

I don't know what to do anymore.  We are clearly stuck with her and it seems like we just have to wait til she outgrows her shitty behavior.  Which will probably be when she's 12 and too arthritic to run. 

I'll take any and all advice, encouragement and suggestions.  Thanks for listening if you're still reading.

[Adina P]

Misbeavior is a PAIN.  And it is downright frightening when it means the naughty one's life is at risk.

Barking is well...barking.  Dogs bark.  I don't think there is any possible way to stop the 1st bark without a bark collar.  But it isn't too hard to get a dog to stop after that first bark.  I'm sure you'll get lots of ideas here.

But I have to ask, what specific training have you done so far when it comes to jumping on people and bolting out the door and coming when called?  What is the process you've gone through, specifically? 

What about the other basic commands: heel, sit, down, stay?  How reliable is she and can you describe situations where you've practiced this that are outside the house (not counting class)? 

I spent a great deal of time invested in training my dogs and got amazing results.  Then I quit training and refreshing their minds about what commands mean and we're back to sh***y results.  My case is of knowing what to do but just not having the time and they are old enough to not be too frustrating the vast majority of the time.

But the way you've describe things, here are the assumptions I'm making:
-- Bad training advice and/or poor execution of training advice
-- Little to NO training using real world distractions that are planned and on purpose
-- Not going out to train at least 5-6 days per week
-- Giving commands when there is no option to follow through

You were blunt so I'm blunt with my assessment of the above.  Which, if any, of my assumptions are correct?

[Susan and Bentley]

We've had 3 rounds of puppy class.  Bentley is 14 months old.  He still doesn't always listen, and I know it's because we slacked on the training, just as Adina said.  So we have to start making sure we get in some training every day - even if it's only for 5 minutes.  We do it in different places, as we were taught to do.  Just remember she is a dog - she loves you and depends on you, she isn't doing it to be "bad".  And make sure you know where she is before you open the door!  One thing we were taught, is before you walk through the door, make her sit and stay, and only go through when you say ok.  Work with her in different doorways, and give really good treats.  And just practice, practice, practice

[Shari Becker]

Hi Bridgit,

First, I'm so sorry you are having so much trouble with Lupin. It's scary and frustrating, and the more anxious you're becoming, the more anxious Lupin is probably becoming, too. 

I'm not training expert, but I will say that I met with three trainers before choosing one that I liked. I even turned down "the best" trainer according to many of my neighbors because I knew his methods wouldn't work for my family. In the end, I found a lovely woman whose specialty is dogs and kids. She believes in kind, humane training, but tons of structure for the dog and the family. We have to practice every single day (or at least 5-6 days a week). 

She would say you need more structure for the dog in your home. Gates and tether stations to keep the dog safe. It's not cruel to contain your dog if she's at risk of harming herself. But make it easy for yourself. No need to be rushing to the crate every time you open a door. (For whatever it's worth, my dog hates the crate. She behaves much better with tethering and gates.)

Have a leash near your front door where you can tether her every time you open your door. Or, maybe a gate closing off part of your house from the next. You can put a sign on your door telling people you will take a few minutes to answer because you are training your dog, and then take the time you need -without  panic - to deal with Lupin first. It's what we had to do with Lexi. We have a tether station near the front door, and we use it when we need to. (Though Lexi's not a bolter, she DEFINITELY jumps, and that's why I tether her - esp. when kids come over.)

Also, is Lupin getting enough exercise? Lexi needs a full hour of hard core exercise a day - at least! The more we exercise her, the better behaved she is. We have a park where she can run unleashed for an hour every morning, and the days we miss those runs, we miss it horribly. She is such a pain in the butt. But when she's tired, she's an angel.

Our vet told us doodles love to be on their hind legs. She said jumping is one of the toughest habits to break with them, so instead, my trainer taught me a leash trick. If I stop to greet someone and Lexi's on her leash. I step on the leash, basically contain Lexi while we're stopped. She can't jump, so she ends up sitting or doing into "down" position within minutes. I reward her then with treats (have them with me all the time now). People think my dog is the best behaved dog. She's not. She just can't move. 

All this to say, it's really hard, and I would try another trainer. Then I would dedicate at least 20 minutes a day to training and get everyone in the family involved, so you all know the rules, and you're all consistent. 

I do feel your pain. Lexi's worst habit is counter surfing, and today she snagged a plate of pancakes that were so far back I was utterly shocked. If she could reach those, she could probably turn on the stove and make herself an egg. I have no idea how we'll get on top of this bad habit, but we keep trying...

Good luck!

Shari

[Bridget and Lupin]

Thanks to both of you for not jumping down my throat about what an awful person I am and what a s*** dog mom I am....appreciate it  :-)  We did a class at PetSmart (waste of time) and at Dogs Best Friend.  Then we had a trainer from Bark Busters come in on the recommendation of a friend.  I fully admit that we don't put in the time with her like we should.  We work on training in the house, the yard, and at the dog park.  She does ok in all those settings.  She's probably the worst in the back yard and on a leashed walk.  She doesn't know "heel" and she will eventually stay.  She doesn't know "down".  Honestly, the growling that we learned at Bark Busters works better than pretty much anything, but I was the only one doing it and I got fed up.  I'm afraid that her shitty behavior is our fault....she doesn't get the exercise and training time she should.  We know that.  I'm a nurse-midwifery student, my husband is a professor (which doesn't mean he has summers off) and we have an almost 5 year old.  We don't have crap for time.  I get that.  So, Adina, I would say that assumptions 1-3 are correct. 

I'm a dog person.....I want to love this dog.  She deserves nothing less.  This sucks.

[Michele Kiss]

One thought.... obviously you can't "farm out" training your dog, because you need to work with her to train the dog you want. BUT, if time is a big issue for you guys (and to the points above about a tired doodle being a better behaved doodle) what if you invest in a dog walker? Someone who can take her out for whatever she needs to be really exhausted. Might be 1x1hour/day, might 2x30min, or even 2x1hour. But if you can get some help giving her a TON of exercise, it might make the time you DO spend training more productive and allow the training to really start to stick? 

The other thing I favour is prioritising, especially if you don't have a lot of time. Focus your efforts on training the problems that are the biggest issues for you. (Rather than following the "first sit, then down, then stand, then stay, etc" order that are typically taught in training.) 

(I have this frustration with my boyfriend and his friend sometimes - they want to train Fenway to catch. Which, fine. But focus on Stay until he nails that!! LOL. It's way more useful!!) 

[Gwyndolyn Morasko]

My rescue was so scary smart about bolting that one time she unbolted the front door and escaped when I was on the phone in my office. She amazingly returned covered in horse manure. The strables are a mile away across 6 lane busy streets. Now I almost trust her and love how she calms herself at the front door and stares at the open door until I release her to sit on my porch while I lock the door. All this in tandom with my other doidle ive had since 8 weeks. So it can be done but only after everyone is consistent every single time. Growling has worked the best for me to show displeasure. And love and kisses and "yes!!" For their rewards. She so wants to please me so it's been so worth it to get through her darting days

[Robin & Josie]

We used a citronella collar to curb the jumping. We also used it for whining (one behavior at a time). If you've done all the positive reinforcement, it's worth a try. Very humane and, in our case, very effective. Also try not beating yourself up. You've got a lot on your plate and an energetic puppy to top it off. I agree about the exercise. Is there a doggie day care in your area? I highly recommend a full or even half day of running around with other dogs. She'll be exhausted for the rest of the day/evening and you'll have a break from her.

Good luck. Hopefully, Lupin will calm down a bit over these next few months.

[Tracey & Spike]

Have a little faith. Doodles are so smart. So smart they are really stubborn!
I totally and truly understand your frustrations. Spike is still really young but I can't tell you how many times my dad has wanted to throw in the towel. We were having the exact same issues you have. Bolting from doors. Not listening. Outright ignoring. Nipping. And the list goes on.

I truly wish we lived closer I would show you some of the things I have learned through Spikes classes. Believe me it is all in the training. And good training. Not to paint all Petsmarts with the same brush.. But the ones by me certify their non dog owning instructors with a one week course. So not cool. And for the expensive trainer. Price doesn't mean quality. From what I've learned on here and through spikes training and watching the other doods they do well on a high treat high reward training method. Yelling & God forbid.... Evil harsh choke collars and other cruel training methods probably won't work

I also understand about time. It takes a ton of time to train. I know it. Believe me. I myself have a two hour each way commute to work. My Mom works full time and Dad has zero patience although he does love and want Spike. Much like your son. We found a damn good training school. I swear it's Harvard league. We go once a week. That's it. It's an hour. Other than that we've been...., correction..... I've been working with him 20 mins a night after work. Thank you pvr.

Here are some of the things that have worked for us:
-get yourself a long training line or even a cheap leash from the dollar store. Leave something on Lupin at all times. If she goes to bolt step on it. Literally.
- for sits and downs we've been using the treat on the nose and lure. It seriously works. In a week Spike sat. And layed down with just a hand command. Treating after of course.
-when people approach we at the beginning... lured spike into a sit on our left. And had a handful of treats and kept popping those suckers in like they were on fire. My pockets still stink like cookies. He's now understanding "hey if I sit I get the good stuff" we have another trick that goes with it. Small tiny pops on his leash. Not enough to rip his head off. But just enough so that he knows that jumping up is unacceptable. Much like the comment above about stepping on the leash so Lupin can't jump even if she tried.

By the end of our four week puppy class the difference was night and day. I swear. And we just finished 6 weeks of grade one. And the results now???? I really think aliens have come and taken away our demonish dood and replaced him with an angel. Now I'm not saying I have a perfect dog by any means. We still have issues (counter surfing..lol at the egg making comment above! Totally Spike!!!) but the differences from the dog we had a mere 9 weeks ago to now??! Holy crap.

Don't lose faith. You can do it.

If it helps our trainer was hired by the evil forces of Purina to put together online puppy classes. The videos are short but it shows you the basic commands the same way we learned them in school. It's a Canadian site and you need to register. It is free. Just make up a Canadian address and you'll be able to access the free videos.
https://www.mypuppy.ca/register.aspx

We are here for you.

[Lori, Daphne, Lucy & Pippa]

I know this is going to sound very simplistic and I don't want you to think Im in any better position than you are. Daphne is horrible at recall! She doesn't run past our cul-de-sac which I am grateful for but she is very difficult at times to get her to return home. Now I know that is all my fault. And she is a horrible leash puller! I need to put the time in to get the results I need so I get that sometimes you just don't have the time. But I will say that Doggy Dan the online dog trainer has given me quite a bit of insight into Daphne's brain and her way of thinking. The few things I have implemented have worked wonders. Sounds like you need to "become the pack leader".  I know that sounds like I have all the answers but believe me, I don't! I haven't found the time to devote to looking at all his lessons like I should so I'm just offering advice at this point. I know he can help both of us but first we have to set aside the time. I have seen it work in small improvements. The "Five Golden rules" is a great place to start! If you haven't tried him yet, you get a 3 day trial for $1.00. But make sure you have the time to get thru several of his videos so you can get your moneys worth. I have decided to stick out the training with him. Now I just have to decide to find the time. Good luck!

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I could not agree more with what Lori has told you here.  Doggie Dan at  theonlinedogtrainer.com  has been the most helpful training that I've come across in the over 6.5 years that I've had my doodles.  And I've been to a lot of training.  Seriously we all use the I don't have time excuse.  Heck, I use it and I'm retired.  However, if we will really think about it, it takes a whole lot more time to have a misbehaved dog than it does to have a well behaved one.  All that time you just spent chasing Lupin could have been spent on training, lol!   If you will go to Doggie Dan's site, just start by watching the videos for the 5 golden rules and start putting those into place you should see dramatic improvement.  It is a ONE DOLLAR investment to see if you like it.  Lupin does not see anyone in your house as the pack leader ... nothing is going to change until he does.  Once these 5 golden rules have been instituted at your house, and are being followed by you and your spouse, then you can start using his other videos to address specific issues.  The best part about his program is that you watch the videos at your convenience.  6am, 6pm, midnight, 3 in the afternoon, whatever works for you.  They are all short and address specific things.  Instituting the 5 golden rules is simple it isn't going to take  forever, just watch the videos and start putting them into place.   Lupin wants to behave, he just doesn't know how.  You owe this to both Lupin and your Son.   If you give it a try, I don't think you will be disappointed.

[Kathy]

I am just going to say something that may make me and awful person in some people's eyes.  There are some collars that aren't harsh esp. when you have a good trainer that knows how to use them.  Many of the collars now days don't just shock they vibrate.  When all else fails even Cesar Milan uses them.  Good luck and don't give up.

[Elizabeth, Bailey & Bruin]

I agree Cathy. It's the correct training of how to use collars that makes all the difference in the world.