Titer Testing Question

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Before Tara came to live with us we decide to try to minimize her vaccine exposure by not giving her some of the more questionable vaccinations and by titer testing on the parvo/distemper. Most holistic vets recommend the puppy series (for these 2) and a one year booster for those two vaccines (or at least parvo) and then titer testing from that point on. We had planned to start with that protocol however, when it was time to do the one year booster we kind of got our wires crossed (long story) and ended up getting her titers tested. Well, to our surprise, they were very strong against these diseases. Now we have the dilemma of whether or not to get the one year booster shots. It seems pointless to have her vaccinated with the titers showing strong. (It is another long story as to why I just don't ask her vet but that isn't an option.) Has anyone else had this experience or have any insight into what to do in this situation? At this point all she has had is her puppy series. This is our first experience with titers so any info would be helpful.

 

 

I guess this should have been a discussion so I am moving it... now it may be in several spots...sorry! I'm a newbie!

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

Here is the response from the holistic vet

Hello Kaytlin,

Our initial visit is approx. 30 min and $94 per animal. We don't do yearly
vaccines as standard and we do titre testing usually 1 year after the first
set of vaccines. The titre test is $80 before tax on top of the exam.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Cha Ching!! Wow-lots of dollar signs!

So by the time you combine the reg. vet blood draw and titer test it is actually about the same as the holistic vet for the parvo/distemper test. Did the quote from the holistic vet include rabies titers- if so it is a DEAL!

Since the rabies vaccine is mandated by law in the US we will be vaccinating Tara for it every 3 years (after the first two which will be a year apart) and doing a detox afterward if needed. Tara got her first rabies very late-after she was a year old. We wanted to wait until her immune system was more mature. So I have not looked into titer testing for rabies-wow it is spendy!!! What are the Canadian laws regarding rabies? If it is required you might be in the same situation as we are and there is no point in titer testing for it. If you worked with a holistic vet you could at least detox her after the shot.

It would be interesting to ask them each what is included in the "exam". And ask the reg. vet how long their exam takes. Some vets do a once over, poke and prod, temperature and "everything looks good" kind of exam. I wonder what the holistic vet does for a half an hour? I suppose part of the extra cost for the holistic vet is due to the added education they have received. They do know an entire other field of medicine as well as having the standard vet education.

If I understand it correctly, you would be paying $32.00 more for the holistic vet (leaving out the rabies titer). That is if you had either of them test titers and do an exam now. Which isn't really too bad.

How are you feeling about it now that you have more info? Or is your head still spinning at this point? LOL!

[Adina P]

Disclaimer: I very much am a person who believes in Western medicine (not in the sense of it being able to solve every I'll or having all and perfect answers...only in the sense that it makes the most sense to ME). Just have to say that so I'm up front and don't come across as 'egging' anyone on. I really am curious but super skeptical about stuff without seeing peer reviewed literature on it--at least in the area of health--unless it makes a lot of sense to me from a physiological standpoint or the mechanism of action makes sense to me.

So on to my question. What is the detox for? In other words what specific THING are they removing/detoxing? For example in heavy metal poisoning a person would get treated to remove the heavy metal. For ---- toxicity there would be specific treatment for THAT. But what component is being removed/detoxed after vaccination?

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Hi Adina, well I would have to say we are probably polar opposites in our approach to medicine! LOL!!

In the above paragraph I was referring to a couple of things. One was a concern about heavy metal contamination from vaccinations and the other was an immediate adverse reaction to the vaccine itself. 

 I know that thimerasol (mercury) free vaccines are now available but testing has shown that they still contain trace amounts of mercury and many to most vaccines also have aluminum in them.   Heavy metal contamination is becoming more and more of an issue. All of us are familiar with the mercury issue  with certain  fish, etc.  and there are many other sources of contamination. The affects can be cumulative and we like to keep the metals moving out rather than building up in our bodies.

The other issue is the adverse reaction to the vaccine itself. It sounds as if you may not be familiar with Homeopathic medicine and the mechanism behind how it works. And I don't think this is the place to get into that whole discussion. There is much info available on the internet explaining it if you are interested in learning more about it. . Anyhow, Holistic vets will often give a dose of  homeopathic Thuja after vaccinations or  homeopathic Lyssin after rabies vaccination to help counteract a possible reaction to the vaccine. More specifically fever, bone pain, muscle aches or  fatigue, diarrhea, etc. that some animals experience after being vaccinated.   In this case "detox" was probably a poor choice of a word. Maybe "supportive remedies" may have been more accurate.

 

[Adina P]

When you refer to the 'vaccine itself' what are you referring to?  The actual infective agent (i.e. the attenuated/killed/or live virus?)?  Why is that supposed to be any more dangerous than the actual virus a dog would encounter anyway when it is not actually infective?  Or am I misunderstanding the concern?

 

I am familiar with homeopathic medicine (at least to some degree), but I'm probably a bigger skeptic of that than anything else in the world of alternative medicine.  I have no problem believing that non-prescription stuff has effects on the body (herbs, plants, etc...I am after all, a dietitian by trade, so I know many things can influence health), but I don't believe in homeopathy.

 

Anyway, thanks for clarifying what the 'toxic' substance was that was being removed.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Well, this is where homeopathy gets tricky and if you are a non-believer then we may be at an impasse!!  LOL!! Vaccines are composed of many chemicals as well as the actual virus. I don't know which of them may be the cause of the reaction that dogs can have to a vaccination. But with homeopathy the treatment is geared toward the symptoms rather then the actual agent.  Therefore, if you expect the dog will have or is having "x" symptoms then the appropriate homeopathic remedy would be one that treats those symptoms.  This explanation being extremely simplified!! LOL

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "actually not infective"? Do you mean because it is a killed virus?  I would think the body must still respond as though it is infective or it would not develop immunity from the vaccination.  Actually I'm getting outside my realm of knowledge here!! :)

 

The concern that I have heard about vaccine vs natural contact with a disease virus is  that with a vaccine the virus is being injected directly into the bloodstream without first encountering the body's natural defense mechanisms.  This would normally not happen in nature. Usually viruses enter the body through nose or mouth.  Therefore, with vaccines the body reacts in a different manner than it would naturally. Research is showing that vaccines tend to trigger an autoimmune response as well as an immune response.  This doesn't happen with a "normal" exposure. Researchers are not sure why this happens at this point. Just that it does in many animals.

 

Here is an aritcle about vaccines and about 1/3 of the way down there are some links to some research studies which you may find interesting. I know this is an area where there is still much to be learned!!

http://www.thewholedog.org/vaccinations.html

[Adina P]

By not 'infective' I mean that a dog won't get rabies from a rabies vaccine (or mumps from a mumps vaccine, etc).  Autoimmune responses are still immune responses, but they are immune responses gone wrong...they are not the normal or common response. I can already see some points in the article I don't agree with.  But I will just leave it at that.

 

The link to the Purdue site (where the study I'm assuming is shown) doesn't work at all.  Do you happen to have an updated link?

 

Thanks for chatting with me on this.  I won't sit here and argue more as this is not the group for this.  Happy Holidays Ricki!

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

I think the Phase II of the Purdue Study is at the bottom of the first link. I haven't found any other links with different information than what is contained there.

 

I hope you and your family have a wonderful holiday season too!!

[F, Calla & Luca]

You really are outside the realm of your knowledge here, sorry. Vaccines are not injected directly into the bloodstream. The body reacts to part, often a protein of the organism, whether it is alive, attenuated or dead. Vaccines have saved countless millions of lives, booth human and animal.

[Ricki and Tara (doodle)]

Thanks for your input.

[Barb @ Gemstone Labradoodles]

Hi Adina

I just noticed this comment of yours and had to address it. Homeopathic and naturopathic medicine changed my and my daughter's life. Without, I don't know were we would be with autoimmune diseases. As it is we are both healthy. My experience has led me to the same path with my dogs. That's my 2 cents worth. Happy Holidays :)

[Taylor & Huff]

We have stopped giving huff most vaccines and only the meds he needs. Like if he has infections, and we also give him flea medicine. And we have him on multi and hip and joint vitamins.