Interesting Facts I learnt at the Vet yesterday

[Chelsea and Bailey]

So I could post this in the food group but thought it might reach more people if used in the general section.  I was at the vet yesterday with Bailey (for her urinary problems, AGAIN) and the vet was kind of stumped and suggested to try to change her food.  She has what are called struvite crystals in her urine, which if left untreated can cause infection, or in her case infection could have caused the crystals. Anyways thats a whole other topic. So when she said to change food (Bailey is on TOTW) I told her that I had done lots of research on what is good, staying away from corn, soy, grain free, etc.  And here is what the vet told me:

-grain free is something that has no backup scientific research behind it and does not mean that it is better

-corn is a HUGE misconception, she said to make sure it says whole corn, same with rice, make sure it says whole wheat rice.

-Byproducts- says that in fact some byproducts can actually be good

-protein- there are no regulations on how to handle the protein.  She says often they put small amounts of protein in the food and inject it with water to make it bulk up and heavier, which they are absolutely allowed to do

-foods stated homeopathic- completely unregulated and could have anything in them, so dont buy into it!

-She also stated that just because it says chicken on what we think is a good quality bag of food actually may still be the intestines and organs.

-The #1 thing she just wanted me to know was that all pet foods are unregulated and what might be in one bag of food with the same company may not be whats in another, which is why some people are baffled when they stay on the same food but all of a sudden their pet has allergies with a new bag of food.

 

Now some of you may think that she was just trying to sell her food at the vet, but she was completely non-judgemental and just wanted to let me know what was out there.  She stated she worked at a pet store before becoming a vet and knew what they told the employee's. She gave me two brands that she has followed and knows are regulated with the exact same ingredients in each bag and also followed the health results in pets, and thought I should try those, and yes one was at her store, but one was also just a normal pet store brand.  I thought I would just share this with you all and see if anyone has any input.  Being trained in medicine and research myself I know not to just read an article off the internet and believe it unless it has been peer reviewed and research tested, but I have to say I jumped right on the band wagon with all this grain free marketing going around without finding any REAL research on it.  So im off to try and search and see if I can find anything... I'll post it here if I do find!

[L.M.]

Just wanted to throw a very brief comment in here.  I am big on proper nutrition for my own body so I try my best to feed my dogs right as well.  My vet always asks what food we feed our pups and we have been happy with TOTW from the day our first pup came home.  Undoubtedly, however, every time the vet asks (or even if we have a different vet that particular day), we respond TOTW, and they respond (EVERY TIME!) "Never heard of it!"  I mean come on.....it's a pretty well-known food!!  So they suggest their Science Diet, I yes them to death and never buy it, and we go on our merry way. So I agree with most of you that vets really have very little knowledge about dog nutrition.  We are happy with the food, the pups love it and are very regular, so we stick with it.

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

One thing I thought was really amazing is my vet told me that they do not have nutritional training in vet school.  She said that she does not recommend any paticular brand of food because like people all dogs are different.  She said that most of what you can learn from ingrediants in pet food you can apply what is good for humans.  Preservatives, fillers, etc. are not good for humans therefore not so good for pets.  Also, what can be good for or benefit one dog might not be good for the other.  Personally, I have to watch the ingrediants in every single food in our house because I am deathly allergic to nuts and there are certain animal foods with nut products or made in a place that also manufactures products with nuts.  In some of the food allergies in dogs I have often wondered if there is a cross contamination issue but that is taking it a little far.  I have a friend that has a sheltie with TONS of food allergies, the list was endless.  She now feeds him a raw diet of only venicine, she figured out it was food allergies YEARS ago before people were as educated about the ingrediants in dog food, now she has a 16 year old sheltie.  Now my cousins dog is allergic to protein - gives him seizures, she has gone through more food than I can ever imagine feeding Hunter in her entire LIFE.  The only food that doesn't give him seizures is Kibble's & Bit's original formula - go figure.  I do think you will get an enourmous amount of help in The Food Group.  GOOD LUCK!

[BG and Gavin]

One sorta humorous comment from our vet:

I took in a stool sample for testing one day.  I asked the vet how the stool test was.  "It was good.  I mean that was a great looking stool.  Well as far as stools are good-looking.  But really, that is a hall of fame stool.  What are you feeding him?"  I told him Go! Grain Free.  "Don't change a thing!"

[Lee Seidman]

The only consistant opinion that I have heard from numerous sources other then from Vets is that Science Diet it one of the lowest rated dog foods. We feed only Orijen grain free to both our Doodles and have been very pleased. Lexi, is not a consistant kibble eater and we do some home cooking for her. Billy is a pretty good eater and seems to like the Orijen and rarely skips a meal. They seldom have any problems with their movements.

Everyone has an their own thoughts on what is the best food and what their dog likes. I believe strongly in the following    website that seems to have reviewed and evaluated most canned and Kibble pet food.  The one thing I am certain of is that feeding the best food will result in a happier, prettier and most important healthier Doodle. Take a moment and go to this site....it may give you some insight to what the nutricionist with no products to push say...it will be enlighteing! Go to the last and lowest rated product....you might find Science Diet there  :(

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/ 

 

Please note, this is an independent study

[Pinky T]

Great information from everyone!  I just want to add that in addition to the dog food analysis websites that do a great job, there is also Whole Dog Journal's annual list of approved foods.  They have certain criteria that a manufacturer must meet to be on list.  They call every dog food manufacturer and ask many questions about the manufacturing of the food.  For example, where is it made?, who manufacturers it?, where is the food sourced?, recalls?, etc.  The whole magazine is a great resource.

 

After reading the Whole Dog Journal list and a few dog food analysis websites, I decided to feed my puppy Orijen. I have been very happy with my choice.  When I read the ingredients of Orijen versus the food my vet recommended (Hills), there is no comparison.  I want my dog to eat meat, not corn.  

 

Read the labels and educate yourself!

[Jennifer Tramell]

Just for disclosure, I am not a foodie :-) but there is one point I am hoping for opinions on. 

"She also told me that if you do not provide your puppy with the right amount of calories for their age, they can grow to fast and have major bone and development issues in the future. She said be sure to check the calories on each bag because some could have as little as 200 per cup and others 1000 per cup."

I have heard something similar to this and I'm hoping for some knowledgable opinions .  I'm assuming that if you provide too many (not too few!) calories it causes them to grow too fast, but couldn't too few calories affect the bone development?  Is this a proven statement or something based on opinion? 

Is there a set caloric intake recommended for pups?  If we can't trust the ingredient content on the back of the petfood bag, is the caloric recommendation accurate?  I haven't even checked but do different foods recommend different amounts? Sorry if this sounds muddled........

[Adina P]

I can answer the last question.  Yes different foods recommend different amounts because they have different calorie content.

[Carol Brand]

People think vets walk on water.  Frankly I am way more informed about breed specific issues than my vet because I spend a whole lot more time than he does researching the issues.  

 

If my vet had said these things to me, I would want to know where he had gotten the information from.  Had he recently attended a nutrition seminar?  Where was the seminar?  Was it at a vet school or was it sponsored by a pet food company?  Had my vet recently read a study?  Who did the study?  Could I have a copy?

 

My thoughts about:

 

Corn.  Cheap filler.  It will not kill your dog, but it might not be the best you can feed your dog.  Some dogs don't do well on it.

Grain.  Many Poodles seem to struggle with grain allergies.  If they don't have outright allergies to grain then many of them don't process it well.  For over a year I struggled to keep weight on my show bitch.  She was just a very poor eater.  When I switched to grain free food, she ate well and put on weight.

Byproducts....  I don't feed my children Chicken Nuggets and I try not to feed my dogs byproducts.  Byproducts are the very end of the food chain.  They may not kill your dog, but they certainly are not the best you can feed. 

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

If anyone here can show me a dog food (an actual food, not an additive or a dehydrated product) that contains 1000 k/cal per cup, I will make a $100 donation to the DRC in your name. I have yet to see one that contains even 600 k/cal per cup. Most dog foods fall between 350-500 k/cal per cup. Grain-frees tend to be more nutrient dense, and the more crap a food contains, the more of it your dog will need to eat.

There is no set calorie requirement for puppies, because it depends on the breed, the expected size as an adult, and even the age of the puppy. But there are several calculators out there that you can use.

This calorie calculator has some flaws, but you might try playing around with it and see how close it comes to the recommendations on your dog food bag:

 http://www.mycockerspaniel.com/mer.htm

I personally follow the guidelines on the food, assuming it is a high-quality food company that is trying to provide factual info and not just trying to sell food, and then adjust up or down depending on the dog's appetitie and weight. Vets may not know much about the foods themselves, but they are usually very very good at knowing if a pup or dog is at a healthy weight, or needs to gain/lose.

[Adina P]

I keep trying to figure out WHAT (besides a cup of peanut butter -- which has about 1500 Calories) would get close to 1000 Calories per cup.  It would need to be a little meat and a ton of oil!

[Joyce & Wilson]

I would love to know what  "vets" feed their dogs when it comes down to it!!??  Just a thought....

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Ask them. JD's specialist feeds a home-cooked diet supplemented with Orijen. My regular vet was feeding whoknowswhat until I set him straight...he had never heard of Orijen, lol, but his dogs are now loving it.