Obedience class not going so well :(

[Kerri B. & Zoey]

Little upset, but I know this is the place to come and vent, cry, receive some understanding, but also receive some tough love.  So we have been going to obedience class for about 3 weeks now.  The first class Zoey did great...paid attention, was getting "sit" right off the bat, she was a little rockstar.  Week 2 we did not fare as well.  There was a week off in between the 1st & 2nd class and it actually was a blessing, because I woke up that Monday morning & threw my back out & was laid up most of the week. A blessing, because we did not have to miss a lesson, but bad in that I probably did not do enough homework with her (it was tough enough just getting myself around and she actually wound up spending a good amount of that week with my parents).  The 2nd class went ok at first.  We worked on sits again and she did well and then began downs.  This was not as successful and she struggled to pay attention, and I struggled to keep her engaged.  After the class I stayed and spoke one on one with the instructor, more about her jumping & biting issues.  We went home and have worked a little over the week, but I know not as much as I should be (this is where the tough love comes in...I know I have to do the work to get the results).  So tonight was the 3rd class.  Since I am at work all day my parents meet me at the class with her, so it's the first chance I have to see her since the am when I leave.  She goes bonkers when she sees me, then gets excited to see all the other dogs and people.  Finally get her to settle down and class begins.  The whole time she is distracted, obstinate, pulling on the leash, jumping...I swear, I felt like I was sticking out...in a bad way.  The instructor had us working on sits and downs and was coming around to us individually.  When he got to me everything fell apart and he basically told me needed to work the sit & get that under control before working on the down.  This kinda pissed me off, cause the dog knows sit...she knew this before we started the class.  Later he had us go to another area and practice walking them with a loose lead and then working on the "wait" command.  By this point Zoey was over it, but I was able to get her to work the "wait" and she actually did pretty good.  Then at the end of class he asked me to stay after.  He is suggesting to me that I need to get a prong correctional collar and bring this to the next class.  This upsets me.  I really don't want to go this route with her and am not confident in my ability to use it right (event though he is telling me he will show me).  I left the class almost in tears about this.  I am not happy of the thought of having to use a prong collar.  Just curious to know what some of you think.  Anyone have experience with these?  Anyone think with enough practice/homework I can avoid it?  I know I need to put more time in with her, so I except my responsibility in that respect.  Just wondering if there is a way to avoid going to this extreme.  Sorry to ramble & rant, but thanks for reading.

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

Thanks, Becka! I'm really sad about it actually. I had lots of respect for this trainer until this occurred. If I ever take more classes, I think I'll go elsewhere. =(

[BRADY GOOSE MOORE (Mini Doodle]

Oh my gosh!   No! No! No!   How could anyone say those horrible things ... I might have told that trainer off (actually, I probably would have cried!)   Poor you and Barley!   I'll rub your tummy too Barley!!!!    Gee Whiz - that trainer sounds like SHE NEEDS A GOOD DOODLE HUG!!!!!

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

Thanks so much! Based on yours and Becka's responses, I feel like I'm not crazy to be upset. I thought maybe I was being too sensitive, but it was sad to see Barley on his back waiting for affection and being ignored...though his mommy rubbed his belly. He's known this trainer since he was 14 weeks old and loves her, so my heart hurt for him. It seemed petty and downright strange. Ah, well...We all have our off jerky days. I'm also curious as to how a dog can be classified as "lazy". Sheesh, he's a dog! Maybe organized sports just isn't his thing. It wasn't mine!

[Carol Brand]

Some dogs have more drive than others.  Some dogs also have better work ethic (the ability to stick to a job until it is done).  Perhaps your trainer should not have used the word "lazy", but it sounds like your dog lacks drive and work ethic.  This is not a horrible thing, but if you do want to do performance events, you will want to actively work to improve these qualities in your dog.  

As far as the belly rub thing goes, I wasn't there so I don't know the situation.  However, I will tell you that I have seen a number of dogs use the belly rub thing as a way to avoid work.   My friend has a Brittany and whenever she tried to ask him to do something he didn't want to do in training, he would flop down on the floor and ask for a belly rub.   It can also be used by some dogs as a way to "force" attention from their owners the same way that some dogs will constantly push into people to demand to be petted.  In this case it can become about the dog controlling access and contact with its owner and it can become a bad habit.

 

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

Hhmm, your assessment sounds like Barley. He does like attention and the belly rub is sometimes used to distract people from having him do something ( me, the vet, the trainer, etc.) He sometimes gives up easily during our training sessions. For example, he'll flop down and start to whine.  (I've done off-leash and treibball classes with him.) I don't think he likes performance events. Is it wise to keep at it if my dog hates it? I thought it would be fun, but it's more frustrating than anything. It negatively affects his behavior at home (i.e., his recall starts to suffer and he ignores me while fawning over other people. I feel like he punishes me for taking him to class). Our final class was last Friday. Now he's back to being a very well-behaved obedient dog. I'd like to add that he does have his CGC and  is a therapy dog; he is wonderful at therapy work. His niche seems to be sitting and having people pet him, and he seems to love it.  In a way, he has become an advocate for dogs. Children and adults who are afraid of dogs end up giving him treats, petting, and hugging him.  Is it wrong to not push him into performance events?

[Carol Brand]

My understanding is that treibball was developed for dogs who wanted and needed a more physically and mentally challenging activity.  While all dogs can benefit from learning new skills, this dog sport seems directed at breeds with more intense drive and work ethic. Think Border Collie or Mal.   I'm not sure that it plays to your dog's natural strengths.  So what.  There are plenty of other dog sports out there. 

Should you quit dog sports?  No way.  If anything, you should keep at it.  Frankly, your dogs sounds like he is acting to please himself more than anything.  I think your relationship will benefit helping him to understand how rewarding it can be to work with you in partnership.  

I get that therapy work is fun and easy.  He gets exactly what he wants: physical attention from people.  Clearly, though, he is blowing you off when YOU need him to do something (failing to respond to the recall or flopping down to avoid work).  A dog/handler relationship needs to be a two way street but right now it sounds like he is getting everything that he wants without having to give in turn.

For dog sports to try,  I'd recommend Competitive Obedience.  The benefits of Obedience is that dogs learn to work in partnership with their handler but they also learn that they have to be responsible for following through on exercises (i.e respond quickly to a single command, hold positions without having to constantly be reminded etc).  Note... for a dog like Barley, I like Obedience better than Rally.  You might also look into Tracking.  Tracking dogs really learn to stick with a job!

As far as the belly flop thing goes, I'd work to remove the behavior.  First I'd teach it as a trick so that he can have it sometimes (give and take).  We had a little poodleX that was trained to belly flop when you fired a finger gun at him and said BANG!  It was such a cute trick.   However, if Barley flops on his own, especially if he does it to avoid work or examination or grooming, I'd give him a big, old collar pop and tell him to get back on his feet.  He only gets to flop when YOU tell him to flop.

 

 

[Jaime and Barley Barker]

Thanks so much for your advice and suggestions, Carol. I'll definitely consider them!

[Amanda & Riley]

Hi there! I will share my experience with you since it is quite similar!

I was having similar issues with my pup in our classes. I did some research and decided to get a prong collar for her (the trainer and vet also suggested it). Since I have been working with Riley with the prong collar I am not exaggerating she is a different dog in class and on walks. Everyone in class has noticed a difference and now a few other owners in the class are looking into getting one : ) I love it!!!

[Jess and Pippin]

Hang in there Kerri.  Pippin is almost 11 months old now.  Our biggest challenges with Pip are that he wants  to say Hi to EVERYBODY (2 and 4 legs), and although he learns quickly, he gets distracted really easily.  Much better now, but still a ways to go.  Here is a snapshot of Monday's class (and this is our second set of obedience, but more advanced this time).  Ooh, doggy, ooh, people, ooh sit,  what??  Sit.  Oh, sit, Ok I can do that,  ooh, treat,  ooh leash,  down, what?? down.  Oh, I can do that.  How long?  3 minutes???  Are you crazy lady??  Oh, I can do that.  Ooh, Vasco's treats are better than mine.  OH, you mean down and stay do you.....  I think you get the picture.  We call this doodle brain, and the episodes are getting shorter and fewer in between.  Once he got past the distractions of the training environment, he did really well, but it always takes 10 minutes or so for him to get the sillies out.  Pippin does much better at home, or in our neighborhood than he does in class.  It's a great way to learn when things are not going perfect.   Pippin tries so hard and has so much fun, but this can be so frustrating.  Lots of patience and practice are needed, and remember to laugh.  Pippin shuts down when he senses we are frustrated, and really, who can learn in that environment.  It's also frustrating when you know they can do better in their own environment, but again, they need to practice with more distractions.  I also found that if I was working on something in class (sit for example), and Pippin wasn't responding, I would change things up and work on down.  So, deep breath OK??  Find a trainer that you feel good working with, who can laugh at the antics and be flexible with how the dogs (and humans) show up for class and not nailed to the lesson plan.  Also, she really is excited to see you after being away for the day, so try a later class, or weekend.  Also, the dogs go through stages where they just seem to forget everything they've learned for a week or so, and then, the following week they are back on track.  Oh, another thought.  Would you be able to recruit your parents to do a few minutes of training with Zoey every day?  My whole family (hubby and 2 teens) do mini training with Pippin throughout the day, so with every walk, every meal, every play session and whenever else we think about it, we work on sit, down, stay, recall, focus and tricks.  It really helps.

[Kerri B. & Zoey]

Jess your class synopsis made me laugh.  LOL.  Thanks for the words of support.  I am realizing now that I probably should have looked for a Saturday class.  I work in the city and have a LONG commute.  My class starts at 7pm, but this means leaving work super early to fight the traffic and make it JUST in time.  So it makes perfect sense that she spends the first 10 minutes going bonkers when she sees me.

[Jess and Pippin]

Glad I made you laugh!  Hope you find a class and trainer that  you both really enjoy!

[Carol Brand]

I've put AKC Obedience titles on 4 dogs, but more importantly, people tell me all the time I have the best trained dogs they have ever seen.  I love the prong collar.  I think it is wonderful tool and I have used it very successfully on a variety of dogs.  I start all my puppies in a prong, including my 10lb Mini Poodle puppy.  

 

In your own words Zoey is:  distracted, obstinate, pulling on the leash, jumping.   It sounds like she is totally blowing you off because she doesn't have to pay attention to you if she doesn't want to.   The advantage of the prong is that you will be able to give Zoey an effective correction.   The prong isn't about yanking your dog around in order to train it.  You are still going to use treats and praise to shape behavior.  The difference is that when she gets out of control, you will be able to quickly refocus her.