Where do breeders get their dogs from?

[Discussing Labradoodles & Goldendoodles]

I was just thinking about how breeders get their dogs.Not me but a lot of people especially pure bred breeders are against mixed breeds unless they are from a rescue then its okay to adopt one.So if breeders are only looking for the betterment of their purebred dogs and to only improve that particular breed.Why would they sell a breeding dog to a breeder that breeds mixed breeds? No reputable breeder of a pure bred dog that cares about their breed and improving upon that breed would ever sell breeding stock to a breeder that breeds mixed breeds.It makes sense to me.So where are these premium  labradoodle  breeders and goldendoodle breeders getting their quality stock from.Once again im confused.What am i missing here?Please keep an open mind these are not my opinions and is not a stab at the awesome LD and GD.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Well, Jared, you've hit on the crux of the matter. Unfortunately, it's a very touchy subject, lol. Your statement is very true:

"No reputable breeder of a pure bred dog that cares about their breed and improving upon that breed would ever sell breeding stock to a breeder that breeds mixed breeds."

In the higher generation doodles, those in which any purebreds are very far back in the pedigree, it doesn't apply any longer, and of course, much of the ALD stock was Australian, and Heaven only knows what all was mixed in there. But for earlier generations, it's a very good question. When you see doodle breeders who claim their parent dogs are from champion lines, I would ask to see those pedigrees, and verify that "CH." is in front of some of the names. All purebred AKC champions are listed in the purebred registry database, so it's easily verified.

In fact, I have seen one pedigree for a poodle mix (not a doodle) that had the names of a very famous and highly esteemed poodle breeder's dogs back a few generations, but those names were (poorly) blacked out, which was probably at the request of the poodle breeder.

The only thing I can say is that you are not missing anything.

[Pat and Traveler]

I've wondered the same thing, Jared.  Trav has some ancestors that seem just too good to be true.  Why would the breeder of champion dogs allow those breedings?  I dunno. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Do the pedigrees list the champions as champions?

This is what a pedigree should look like if there are champions in the lines. Note the titles in front of the dogs names, and that you can look up the pedigree and the health testing for every dog listed, all the way back, and back even further than that if you keep clicking on the oldest dogs. This is the pedigree of a younger full sibling to my last dog:

http://www.poodlepedigree.com/pedigree.asp?ID=29077

 

[Pat and Traveler]

Karen, I don't have the pedigrees in front of me as I was doing a Karen-type sleuth thing on the internet.  I must have had some extra time on my hands one day, as I started with Trav's parents, as I had their names and their parents' names and breeders.  From that I found a couple of greatgrandparents, etc.  I wasn't able to find many ancestors, of course, but was able to follow a line or two for a surprisingly long ways, thanks to occasional pedigrees posted by breeders, which would lead to yet another series of ancestors.  There were some stunning Champion poodles way back there in a couple of lines I was able to trace.  I hasten to say that Trav's breeder didn't have anything to do with this bee in my bonnet--it was just a whimsical (and tedious!) search of my own. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's interesting, though, isn't it? If you found some of the dogs in the poodle pedigree database, then it's legit.

 

[Pat and Traveler]

Yes, I'm sure you can understand--there were a couple of dogs with their ancestry listed right there-- it was like a clue, very hard not to take up the challenge to see where it all might lead.  LOL

[Ginny Nightingale]

One person I know bred champion labrador retrievers and was able to procure a champion poodle to start her line--she worked with other breeders who asked that their names not be used, but the dogs used were all champions. I guess it just depends on how strongly they are against mixing the breeds--not everyone in the AKC world feels it is a mistake. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Have you seen the pedigree and the titles? See my reply above as to what a champion pedigree should look like.

[Ginny Nightingale]

No--she does not give out pedigrees with her doodles--just the results of all health tests.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

So then you don't really know if the dogs were in fact champions. But if you know the name of the kennel, you can check the names in the database.

[Jennifer,Chloe & Myla]

Jared-I like how you are brave enough to ask the questions that just float around in our heads!

[Carol Brand]

Speaking for the Poodle world, I know that reputable breeders who are involved in the fancy don't sell to people who breed mixed breed dogs.  Heck, we don't sell to just any old Joe Smoe who wants to breed purebred Poodles.  The breeders I run with will only sell a breeding dog on full registration if the buyer is willing to put an AKC championship or some high level performance title on it before the dog is bred.  This is because people who deeply care about Poodles (or insert purebred dog of choice here) want to prove that a dog is worthy of going back into gene pool. 

From what I've seen, most Doodle breeding stock (Poodles, Labs and Goldens) comes from backyard breeders or puppy mills. Sometimes dogs are picked up off of Craig's list or out of the newspaper.  Sadly, sometimes Doodle breeders represent themselves as "pet" buyers and buy a dog on a spay/neuter agreement only to turn around and put it into a breeding program. (I have personally seen this happen twice.  Both times with Mini puppy dogs.)

Why should buyers care where the breeding stock comes from?  I think the biggest issues is lack of knowledge about the pedigree of the breeding dog.  When a breeder picks up dogs here and there, they have no idea what they might be breeding into.  Sure you can test, but speaking from the Poodle end, what do you know about the history of Bloat or Epilepsy or Addisons in the line.  And, if you are buying from a BYB or a puppy mill, what do they really know about the breed?  I remember that one Doodle breeder was dumbfounded when her Poodle stud dog died of JRD.  She said that she had never heard of it and that the breeder she bought her dog from had never heard of it.  How in the heck can you be breeding Standard Poodles if you have never heard of JRD!?!  

Anyway, want to check out what's in your dog's line?  If you have a pedigree, I'm happy to help folks research the Poodle part of their Doodle.