Another breeder question

[Julia]

What do you think is a fair asking price for a retired breeding ALD, or an older puppy (say between 1-2 years old)Most ALD puppies seem to be $2500, do you think a rehome should be the same?

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

Nina, with all due respect, I have to disagree.  One shouldn't consider adopting just to avoid the "sticker shock" associated with purchasing a dog from a breeder. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I second this, including the respect, which is certainly due you for all you do for the rescue doodles, Nina. But it really turns me off when a would-be adopter states that they want to adopt because they can't afford to purchase a dog from a reputable breeder. Lower price is not a good reason to adopt. 

[F, Calla & Luca]

It seems to me that Nina was saying that not all breeders who charge a lot of money are good ones and I think that's true. She mentioned looking for health testing etc. Also, she suggested that people could think about adopting a rescue dog but that was if they really wanted a dog not just because they cost less. Of course, any new owner needs to be prepared for the ongoing costs of owning a dog. Some people could afford that, perhaps with health insurance factored in but not afford breeder prices upfront.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Oh, I'm not questioning what Nina is saying in any way shape or form! She knows better than almost anyone what kind of motives and commitment are required to adopt a rescue doodle, and as the DRC Regional Director for GA does a great job of placing dogs in wonderful homes.  I'm just responding to the one statement "If you are having sticker shock, you might consider adopting..." , because everyone is not as well-educated on this as Nina, Amy, you or I, and there have been many people who did seek to adopt just because they cannot afford to pay breeder prices. I know that cost is not Julia's main concern, either.

But one look at the profile pages on the DRC website tells us that are a lot of people for whom the sole motivation in considering a rescue is cost.  Person after person has stated "I would like to find a rescue because I cannot afford to buy a puppy from a breeder." I compare it to someone who buys a used car because they can't afford a new one. There are people who can afford a new one but think that's a waste of money that could be better spent elsewhere, but there are also those who would much prefer the new car, they just can't afford it. That's fine for cars, not so good for dogs.

There have also been many newbies here on DK who started discussions complaining about the high price of doodle puppies and how much they want one but can't afford one and invariably, someone will suggest adopting a rescue doodle as a solution. So I just wanted to clarify this in case someone sees that and just thinks "Oh, that's a good idea."

And apologies to Julia for taking her discussion slightly off-track.

[Adina P]

I think it depends.  I, personally, would only pay $2500 for an older dog IF that dog came fully socialized AND trained.  And by trained I mean TRAINED to be reliable on and off leash to all basic commands  not just familiar with commands.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Tough question. 

If you want an older dog, then get an older dog.  I don't really think price enters into it. 

Mostly you would want to know the truth about why it was an older dog.  To me acceptable answers would be:  We kept this dog to breed, but changed our minds and why they changed their minds.  This dog was with an owner whose circumstances changed and the owner returned the dog to me as I requested.  If the dog was returned for other reasons, get to know the dog.  Maybe the first owner was just unrealistic and the dog is fine.  Maybe the dog is very high energy, has terrible habits, etc.  At least you know what you are getting. 

Very very few owners of a highly trained dog (like Adina describes) will part with that dog for any price.  Enormous bonding occurs between dog and trainer to reach that level of training.  It could happen, but ask a lot of why questions, if you are told the dog is highly trained.  If it was a real find like that, $2500 is a steal!

Most older puppies 1-2 years old have one of the following reasons they did not get purchased as a young puppy.  They were being kept for breeding, but proved to be unsuitable for some reason, get your own vet's opinion before you pay for the dog.  The dog just did not sell from his litter, not enought buyers, everyone wanted a young puppy, and if the breeder always has young puppies at least available  people usually like the idea of "choosing" and getting a young puppy.  The puppy is black.  Sounds crazy huh?   Black for some reason is the least chosen dog in litters, rescues and shelters.  I love my black dog Roo so I cannot explain that statistic. 

When thinking of cost remember older puppies have had more money put in them, shots check ups etc.

 

 

[Adina P]

OK perhaps asking for a dog trained to be off leash reliable is asking too much :)  BUT I certainly would want to know the adult accepted crating, was completely housebroken,  had no 'issues', and could be taken in public on leash without worry of getting my arm ripped off.

[F, Calla & Luca]

That sounds more like it. Some retired breeders are kennel dogs and really would not make good pets to live in a home. There are some "good" breeders who keep dogs in kennels outside their homes.

[Lorraine Bromley]

I am just so glad that you joined this site and are educating and asking yourself these questions. So many people don't and end up in situations they weren't expecting. I know that you will find the answers you need to make the final decision.

[Julia]

I am also so glad I've found this site. This is such an important decision and commitment I need as much information as I can get. I'm still surprised that I have be researching for months but only just found this site!

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I would want answers to the following questions in determining price (and this is only MY opinion):

1) Is the dog being re-homed, i.e. it was actually previously sold and lived with another family for a period of time?  If this was the case, I would expect the breeder to charge less for that dog because they had already received money for it.  I would insist on knowing why the dog was returned and if it has 'issues' and what they were - perhaps those re-homing issues are not a big deal for your family situation.

2) If the dog is a retiring breeder, I would want to know, if female, how many litters it had.   If male, why they were retiring him. I would want to KNOW that this adult dog had been INSIDE the home as a pet and was fully house broken, socialized, and had mastery of basic commands.  I would expect this dog to be sold to the right family for a mutually agreed upon price perhaps the full puppy price, perhaps less.  If the dog was 4 - 6 years old, I would guess less???

3) If the dog was an older puppy that had not yet been sold.  I would want to know why it hadn't been sold. I would want it to have been treated as a member of the family and socialized as appropriate for the pup's age. I would expect the breeder to charge full price for this pup unless she (the breeder) felt that she really needed to get this pup into its permanent home and offered a discount price.