Life Lesson: It's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it....

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

I have not spent as much time on DK as I used to.  I do read posts often but I do not comment and I do not post many discussions or blogs at all.  I find that to often I feel very bad for people that are reaching out for help, have questions, are in general uninformed about certain topics, or have had to make decisions that they probably wish they did not have to make. 

 

I feel bad for them because without fail it seems there are members just waiting for people to say something they can criticise or judge.  Even when people are pleading not to be judged some just cannot resist being condescending and judgemental.  I find humor when people defend their mean-spiritedness stating that this is a group with open discussions and people are entitled to their OPINIONS.  I never realized that to be an opinion you had to be judgemental and critical.

 

We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows o...

 

Here are a few definitions I had given to my 13-year-old daughter last school year when she seemed confused about how to react to certain comments made by her school peers.

 

question  - noun

1. a sentence in an interrogative form, addressed to someone in order to get information in reply.

2. a problem for discussion or under discussion; a matter for investigation.

3. a matter of some uncertainty or difficulty; problem (usually followed by of ): It was simply a question of time.

4. a subject of dispute or controversy.

5. a proposal to be debated or voted on, as in a meeting or a deliberative assembly.

 

statement   - noun

1. The act of stating or declaring.

2. Something stated; a declaration.

 

opinion  - noun

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

 

judgement - noun

1. an act or instance of judging.

2. the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of sound judgment.

 

judgemental  -  adj

1. of or denoting an attitude in which judgments about other people's conduct are made.

criticism  - noun

1. the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.

2. the act of passing severe judgment; censure; faultfinding.

  

compassion - noun

1. a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.

 

empathy  - noun

1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.

 

respect -  verb   

1. to hold in esteem or honor:

2. to show regard or consideration for: to respect someone's rights.

3. to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with: to respect a person's privacy.

4. to relate or have reference to.

 

 

 

Giving criticism tests your communication skills. If you do it right, you can change it from a stinging, negative message to a positive, motivating experience for every member that reads it.

You may be frustrated, angry, annoyed, peeved, apoplectic or slightly uncomfortable. But if you approach criticism with a temper or an angry demeanour, you are less likely to think straight and may say or do something you wish you hadn’t, or others to feel embarassment for you disregard for people being humans and not perfect.

Stop and ask yourself…why do I need to criticise someone else? Simple question, not so simple answer.

 

Because they have failed, botched, screwed-up, or not performed to the level I expected, I have to let them know how I feel about it. 

Really?  Someone asking for help, asking questions, being uninformed, making a decision you necessarily don't agree with or someone just making a statement, you have to let them know about it by being critical and sometimes downright rude and mean?  God help anyone with a low self-esteem.

Here are a few quotes I thought about while going through posts today..............

• Judging others is a dangerous thing, not because you may make a mistake about them, but because you may be revealing the truth about yourself.
• We may ask for information, but we are usually only interested in what confirms our opinions.
• A narrow mind and an open mouth usually go together.
• Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves.
• Never judge a man's actions without knowing his motives.

 

There are many, many, many members on DK that are awesome! Whether I agree with all of their opinions or not they handle themselves with finesse.  At the end of the day doesn't everyone want to feel good about themselves and how they have treated others?  As my mother ALWAYS said "It's not WHAT you say, it's HOW you say it".

 

 

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

Denise -

Again generalities and no specifics.  Please put links to the posts that you think there are "issues" with.  Frankly I don't understand what you are talking about.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Nor do I.

[Denise & Hunter!!!]

Andy, let's put this blunt since obviously it is missing the mark.    I am talking GENERALLY about not attacking someone's character that you do not know, being obviously condescending, rude and disrespectful when you disagree with someone or feel that they are not as knowledgable as you are.  If you think that by bullying someone they are going to take your advice you are wrong.  There nothing politically correct about this.  Why do I have to refer to specific posts when its a general feeling that in the last 6+ months I come to DK and feel this way and make this general observation?

TREAT PEOPLE AS YOU WOULD WANT TO BE TREATED.  I don't believe there are many people within DK that are truly mean, evil and nasty people.  If someone that is new to DK and does not realize there is a difference in foods, or that debarking is cruel, or if you have kids you don't get rid of your dog.  By educating people and not attacking them you make a positive impact.  Now if its your intention to force your judgement at all costs down someones throat then by all means you are free to do that but I wouldn't expect the person on the receiving end to not get defensive or judgmental back.  I am certain there is something that I could learn from every single person on DK but I can guarantee I am going to take more away from the people that know how to treat people with respect unless its obvious they don't deserve it.   

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Denise, if you don't like the way the rest of us answer people's questions, why don't we just stop responding to anyone's questions or trying to help anyone, and you just take over? Oh, and I'll forward you the 10 or 12 PMs I get every day asking me for help with food, illness, etc., and you can take time to help them, too. I'm sure you will do a better job than I do.

I really don't need this. You have no right to tell other people they are condescending or rude, and you certainly have no right to tell anyone what they "feel" about how knowledgable someone else may be. You are doing exactly what you are complaining about, judgng other people. If you can prove that any of what you are saying is true, please do. Otherwise, it is just your opinion, and one that obviously very few others share, judging by the responses here. Why don't you speak up and say these things when you see it? Having the courage of one's convictions is another lesson we try to teach our children.

I don't volunteer  information, people ask me, and the same is true of everyone else who actually helps someone around here and doesn't just sit there and complain about the work others are doing. Frankly, I also don't particularly care if anyone takes my advice or not.

I am really flabbergasted that one person would try to dictate to everyone else here how to speak, how to treat others, and most of all, how to feel.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

"Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black!"  A great saying.   

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

ok, so basically you've randomly decided to post a lecture for us to all learn how to communicate better because you had a general feeling that you didn't like the way we were behaving. Now, we are supposed to magically be able to adjust to your standards without actually being "shown the light" on where we have gone so wrong nor what specifically we need to do to improve.

I'm really feeling irritated by this whole thing. I don't know how I get sucked into these ridiculous conversations but I swear this is the last one. If Adina and Clark ever post something about the way people are communicating on their forum then I will sit up and listen, but when a random member decides that we aren't meeting her standards and tries to make it "better", please please please someone remind me not to get invovled.

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

Sherrie - wiser words have never been spoken.  Once again we have gotten sucked in.  This person set out, in my opinion - oh but what - according to her I'm not entitled to that - to enflame this site.  Job well done dear flammer.

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

Sherri, couldn't agree more. Patronizing, preaching twaddle!

[F, Calla & Luca]

Twaddle, another great word : )

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

"Why do I have to refer to specific posts when its a general feeling that in the last 6+ months I come to DK and feel this way and make this general observation?"

So that we can tell what made you get this "general feeling" as many of us (including myself) don't have this "general feeling".

 

Denise - "Now if its your intention to force your judgement at all costs down someones throat then by all means you are free to do that but I wouldn't expect the person on the receiving end to not get defensive or judgmental back."  Practice what you preach.

You must be "holier than holy" to feel that you can tell a whole community to follow your rules of posting.

 

This is my general feeling.  And of course I don't (won't) post specific reasons that I feel this way.

[ClarkP]

I happen to think Denise makes an excellent point.  Yes, it is her general impression of how things are going.  But there is truth in it.  Just as there is truth in most all of the rebuttals.

I don't think anyone involved in this discussion has to change their beliefs.  You believe how you do for very good reasons.  You guys are the smartest group of dog people I have ever seen assembled.  Not to mention most fun and funniest too.  No kidding.  You guys know the best way to do almost everything.  None of you  have to bite your tongues and say nothing when you see something wrong.  No where does anyone say you can't confront poor behavior.  We SHOULD do that.  

But we also have to be pragmatic about how other people actually learn and change.  If one of our goals is to elevate the behavior of others through education of them, then the education should be one that that does not harden and entrench the erroneous position of the pupil.  The people learning from the amazing wisdom of our members probably need to recognize that they are having good ideas given to them before they will want to change their own behavior.  When people know better, they do better.  When people feel attacked, rightly or wrongly, they defend.  It's a delicate balance when 'correcting' anyone.  Just ask my wife about her attempts to make me more correct.  :-)  Correct is still correct.  But I'm much more likely to behave better if I don't feel forced into someone else's version of correct.  If that happens, I'm a stubborn son-of-a-gun.  I'll stick to my previous course for way too long even after I can see it is probably wrong.

Allow people to be good of their own accord.  Forcing them to be good doesn't usually work for people of any age.  People can only change when they want that change themselves.  So if our goal is to effect positive change, then Denise makes an excellent point.  We can express our dissent quite clearly.  How it is done makes all the difference in whether the person will accept that correction.

Yup... I spoke in generalities too.  It still see it as true.  You may not.  :-)   I spoke in generalities not because I couldn't give examples of things that cross the line of our Guidelines from people on both sides of this discussion.  I could.  But so what?  Would that accomplish anything besides making an example of someone?  

I hope that all messages with truth in them are considered.  We can all improve.  Even when someone as imperfect as me delivers a message, my imperfection has nothing to do with whether the message I deliver is true or not.  And that's where it's difficult.  It's really tempting to go after me for my deficiencies rather than acknowledge there might be truth in what I'm saying.

So I'll end with some truisms that border on cliché.  Some have been already been mentioned by others:

"You cannot establish democracy at gunpoint."
"It's not what you say, it's how you say it."
"Always tell the truth but don't always be telling it."
"I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to... I guess."

/Clark

PS.  Gosh... what a blowhard gasbag I am.

[Sherri, Sophie, Winston, & Kitty]

Clark, I agree with everything you said, it's a very good perspective on how to communicate when we're not happy with what a poster has said or done and we can always strive to be better communicators.

 

But I think the issue here that I am irritated with is that it is not what Denise has said here, but how she has gone about saying it.

 

(Is that Ironic? I can never get the use of that word straight.)