mixed feelings about doggie daycare

[Willow and J]

Today was Willow's 4th day at a doggie daycare, and we're getting some mixed feelings about what it does to Willow. We like the place fine (owners are wonderful, and they are experienced trainers), and we thought Willow liked it too, but today, she didn't want to go in to the building, then when she was greeted on entering by the staff, she peed and obviously didn't want to part from us. Willow is submissive, but she is not shy, and it's rare that she pees in fear. We are confused and I wanted to ask help from DKers to understand what went on and also to have some advice what to do in the future.

1. Could this mean that it took Willow for three visits to realize that this is not something she enjoys / that she hates the place?

or

2. She hasn't been to the daycare for a while (3 months): could it be that Willow had to readjust herself to this place again and got nervous?

The daycare only accepts limited number of dogs per day and has strict reservation policy, and their facility is clean and nice. There's always someone monitoring dogs, and there's no other signs of stress we see in Willow after she comes back. (We know that she's always super thirsty and probably didn't get to the water bowl as often as she'd like because she's submissive.)

What we wish this daycare provides is 1) camera / video and/or 2) reports afterwards. They just say "Willow was fine" when asked. So we don't really know how Willow did on a particular day. (And so far, I wasn't able to find a daycare that provide either of the two in my area. One other place we tried said their camera was out of order - for how long, they didn't say.)

The reason we want to keep taking Willow to this or any daycare is that she craves friends. She often stays aside when there are more than 4-5 dogs ganging up, but she LOVES to romp with a dog or two at a time at the dogpark. Daycare is an alternative for bad weather days. But having said that, I also wonder if daycare is already too big a venue for her - there are always more than a dozen dogs. Once we peeped through their fence and saw Willow sitting in one corner, sort of away from others, and today's accident makes me wonder if Willow really doesn't want "parties" with many dogs. Does this make any sense? What can I do to make Willow's daycare visits more pleasant? (For example, shall I ask one of her friends to go with her?) Or, should I just give up the daycare and try playdates more often with her friends? 

Thank you for your advice!

 

   

[Stephanie]

Have you considered giving her more time to adjust?  I used to be a groomer at a boarding/open play daycare facility and when I first started taking my Standard Poodle down to play he would hide under the table, bark and whine at the door for me to come back, and generally seemed unhappy.  I knew from working there that it was often overwhelming for awhile for some dogs so I kept taking him.  I had him play in the calm dog room (they would divide dogs by activity level instead of just size) and after a few weeks I couldn't get him in the door fast enough.

I no longer work there, but I still feel obligated to take him at least once a week because I know he loves it so much and always comes home exhausted.  The place I use does have webcam though, and I like that quite a bit.  I'm not sure if you have a Dogtopia or Camp Bow Wow near you but I know both offer webcams.

If  that behavior continues even after a few weeks of regular use...maybe it's just not for her!  I do know it took Sagan a long time to warm up to the place, but he loves it now.

Also, while working at that place I very rarely saw a dog that didn't have a good time while at the daycare.  Many dogs didn't like leaving mom/dad but as soon as they were out of sight it was like they forgot all about them and were thrilled to run down to the playrooms.  So, it could be more that she doesn't like the act of leaving you..instead of not enjoying her time in daycare.  Without webcams though it's hard to say!

[Willow and J]

Yeah, this is why I am confused. Willow was really happy for first three visits, and now, she's suddenly fearful. On the one hand, it makes sense that after several times, she knows that this is not a happy place for her. On the other hand, she's gone there three times, knows the place, liked it the first three times - I'm asking myself, is she still adjusting, and if so, how many more times does she need to go before she gets comfortable? We don't want to force her in any sense, of course. Seeing her peeing once was heartbreaking enough.

When we picked her up (we picked her up earlier this time), she seemed fine, too. She's always very very very happy to see us, so it's a bit hard to tell if that was "Thank G! You guys are here, FINALLY!" or "Oh, Mommy, wanna hear what fun I had today at the daycare?" Like you said, it's hard to say without a webcam.... 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I agree with the others, Willow is giving you very clear signals that something or someone at daycare is making her stressed, uncomfortable, or frightened. Jackdoodle is another dog who would hate daycare. He hates "parties with many dogs", lol.

If it isn't necessary for Willow to be in daycare, I'd just forget about this place. Arranging playdates sounds like a better option for Willow.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

let me preface this by saying we have never used a doggy daycare.

We have had the time where Boomer just dug his heels in and would not go to the groomer.  Shayna did go and there were some obvious problems.  Boomer "knew" something wasn't right.  If any of our dogs senses a problem somewhere or with someone - it is avoided!!!

 

Our dogs have a much better sense for this kind of thing then we do.  Remember in the wild animals depend on these sense in order to live. 

[Willow and J]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I know, it's obvious that Willow didn't like to go in yesterday. But first three times, she was so happy to go - she "knocked" on the door herself with front paws! We know that she avoids ganged up group of dogs, but given how she goes to greet every new dog who enters at the dogpark, it's hard to imagine she'd be miserable at the daycare, either. On the walks, she pulls me to the direction of any dog we pass on the street, and she's always wagging tail and wants to play. It's been a VERY hot summer with almost no dogs to be seen on the street and in the park for a while, and every time we took her out, she was looking for her friends, sometimes refusing to come home and running her "radar" looking around and around on the highest point of the park.

I want to try at least once more to see how Willow reacts, if yesterday was an exception (come to think of it, there was a new person yesterday; there wasn't the usual "greeter", the owner's goldendoodle, at the check-in desk). If she displays fear again, I'll just walk away without dropping her off. I also want to hear what daycare people say about why they think Willow developed this fear issue suddenly.

Thank you again! 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I'm not trying to dissuade you from trying again, but just wanted to say this. Does Willow ever urinate when she meets a new person? Vets offices are scary places for many dogs. Has she ever urinated there when a vet tech she didn't know approached her, that kind of thing?

Have you ever left her anywhere besides the daycare? A boarding facility, a grooming salon, a friend or relative's house? Did she pee there?

If not, I would be very very leery of leaving her at the daycare again. If something happened to her that frightened her so much that it is provoking involuntary peeing, they are not going to tell you that. Maybe they don't even know, maybe something happened involving other dogs, but this is their business and they are not going to tell you something that might jeopardize their livelihood. I may be totally off the mark, and I know this is a very cynical viewpoint, but it unfortunately comes from a lot of experience.

[Willow and J]

Karen, thanks for bringing this up. It is difficult to not to get cynical, sadly, for a lot of things relating to pets and animals.

She peed at the groomer's before, and that's why I'm not taking her there again. As a rule, Willow doesn't get scared at a new place or a new person. It's more like after 2-3 visits, and she knows the place, then she pulls away. No peeing at friend's house; not at the vets'; no experience with a boarding facility yet.

Your reply also brings up the other question I have about whether Willow being with us 24/7 for last several months had any impact on her behavior yesterday. Since my husband had a knee surgery (another long story; hit by Willow's friend, a 55lb. boxer, which resulted in a bone fracture), she's rarely had a lone time. She didn't goto the daycare for 3 months, and she's been with one of us at home pretty much 24/7 for last several months. Is it possible that she got so used to being at home with us that she hated to go to the daycare? 

I also wonder if it is necessary to train Willow to be left by herself regularly, at home, or somewhere else (boarding facility, friend's house, etc.). We don't have to leave Willow alone much if we coordinate our schedules well (we have flexible work schedule), and so far, Willow hasn't spent overnight other than home (one of us stayed home; once we had someone at home to look after her; and we drove across the country with her everywhere for trips.) But there will be inevitable out-of-town trips, emergency or otherwise, and we get to wonder if it's necessary to train her for that. When Willow was young, we trained her to be left at home (first 1.5 years crated, not anymore, 3-4 hours at a stretch), and she has no separation anxiety. She's been fine at friend's houses too (upto a day).

In sum, I'm confused if yesterday's episode was a separation anxiety, or she just decided she doesn't like the daycare. And if she doesn't like that particular one or the general idea of too many dogs at once still needs to be sorted out...

Thank you again!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

You do bring up some good points. With JD, he gets more comofrtable and relaxed the more he goes to a place. When I first adopted him, he was afraid of everything; just walking around a small pet supply store freaked him out. The more familiar he becomes with a place, the less afraid he is. Because we have to go to the vet once a week, he now acts like he's visiting a friend when we go there, lol. People are always commenting on how relaxed he is at the vet, but i know if we started going to a new vet, he'd be glued to my side until he got used to it.

With every new dog, I always vow I'm going to start leaving them at a boarding facility every so often for one night, just to get them used to it if i ever have to go away, but I never do it. With JD, it's not a problem, because I never travel, and if I did, my DD is here. But it did become a problem with my last dog; I had to find friends or relatives who could come stay at my house with her if I wanted to go away.  

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

I swear that with my next dog doodle I will leave it home alone from the beginning so that we desensitize separations.  I don't know if Willow hates the daycare or if she is just afraid to be without you.  You could begin retraining her to stay alone and see if that seems to be an issue for her.

[Willow and J]

Sigh. Don't we love to be around our doodles too much? :) For about first 18 months or so, I did insist on training her to be "independent" and left her at home for several hours when I could also take her to work. Then, Willow grew up learning not to make any nuisance, and we felt silly to leave her behind just so that she could be trained. This is our first experience anything similar to separation anxiety. (And she just walked over to me and put her head on my lap... awww....)

[Pat and Traveler]

Hard to generalize--Trav loves going to daycare, for the first 15 minutes or so.  He's crazy-happy in the car when we pull up and for the first 15 minutes or so when he's with the other dogs.   I've watched doggie cam, and after the initial flurry, he just settles down and waits for me.  He won't play at all, he just waits.  Once he stayed in the same place (on a table) for more than two hours, just watching the gate.  At one daycare you can stay with your dog, and this is a wonderful thing for him--best of all worlds!  And for our daily routine, we go to a nearby park where he has a couple of play buddies.   If I had to leave him alone now, I'd have him stay at home with one of my daughters as live-in dog sitter.  I didn't realize this kind of bonding could become a problem--we're together pretty much 24/7 and have been since he was 8 weeks old.  He was okay going away with other people at puppy kindergarten, but those times are past.  Fortunately, he's fine in the house or car by himself, and loves going to the vet, where he will go away from the waiting room with a vet tech. 

If Trav peed at a door, I'd know he was terrified about something there and I wouldn't even take him inside.  But he's never done a fear-pee, so that would really be a red flag for me!   

[Willow and J]

Interesting. Willow sounds pretty similar to Trav. Our friends also told us that Willow pretty much stays at the door until we come back when they dog sat for us. She does play some with her friend (dog, my friend's daughter), but it looks like her day revolves around us and us only on most days.

We found that she had peed only after she went in and felt really bad. We almost turned around and asked her back, but we never thought she'd be fearful of the daycare and didn't know what to do. Thankfully, she didn't seem like it was traumatizing experience when we picked her up, but she's also just so happy to see us after 3 hours...  hope there's no permanent damage...