playing vs. fighting: how much is too much??

[Lisa & Greg]

Hi all,

We have two 9-week-old littermates, Noodles and Bootes, who get into what seems like fights to me. Their "playing" escalates to chasing, nipping, biting and even yelping. They also stalk each other, crouching down as they slowly approach each other before pouncing and starting all over again. Noodles is the bigger one but Bootes seems to be the aggressor most times. I know they are working on sorting out which of the two is the dominant one but I also want to be sure they know that we - their family - are the leader of the pack.

How do we know when their "play" is out of control? When do we intercede and how? I have been letting them "work it out" up to a point then stamping my foot and saying no when I believe it's gotten out of control. Sometimes I also distract with a chew toy - "chew this, not your sister!"

Any advice?

[Deborah Brown]

I have three doodles, one is a 10 month puppy.  My doodles play pretty roughly.  There is growling, bared teeth and a lot of jumping around and chasing.  It has rarely gotten to the point that I needed to intercede.  When the pup was very small, she would provoke the older two to the point where they would gang up on her.  Then I'd step in and rescue her from the craziness.  However, most of the time, I thought she deserved it when they put her in her place.

As long as neither pup is getting injured and they are both coming back for more, I would let them work it out. The biting and yelping is teaching them how far they can go and where to draw the line. However, I would also make sure they both had plenty of time separated so that they can rest and feel safe. Don't let this go on for hours during the day.

I can only imagine your house is a ton of fun and chaos!

[Lisa & Greg]

Thanks, Deborah. I figured we have to find a balance while allowing them to work it out between them, so it's good to hear your perspective. It is chaos - and I work from home, so it's really wild trying to get my work done (not to mention client calls!) during all the craziness of raising these two puppies!

[Deborah Brown]

I work at home too.  I thought it would be easy to add a puppy last November.  Ha!  The first two months were totally exhausting.  DH and I wondered why we thought this was a good idea.  Penny is still mischievous and keeps us on our toes but life has become a little more normal.  I can only wish you good luck.

[Barbara B., Sasha & Oliver]

My two doodles are 3 yrs and 3 1/2 years old so they were pretty young as puppies when I got them.  To this day they stalk each other - LOL.   Its total play with my two, my Sasha is VERY vocal and anyone walking past my yard that don't know my two you would think that Sasha is murdering Oliver !!! and she is the smaller one !!!  I usually let them play until they tucker out and it never escalated into  a fight.  They let each other know what is acceptable and what is not, my doodles are pretty good that way, they know each other's limits.

[Heather & Brinkley]

Brinkley has a buddy that he plays with on a regular basis.  They play SOO ROUGH. By all accounts, you'd think they were fighting except they always have their tails wagging.  I don't intervene unless it's obvious they are reacting in a jelous way (like over me petting one of them first, etc.)  They growl, shove, show teeth, body check each other.  It's great and neither my friend nor I have any concerns because they always come back for more and they take turns starting the playing. 

 

Once when I was watching Brinkley play during open play at his daycare, I intervened once because I thought Brinkley was being rough.  The owner said, "oh, they are just playing around.  They sound mean, but these two go at it all day like this."  That's when I first realized how rough Brinkley could play.  I now notice an obvious difference between when there is a true aggressive nature (as seen at some dog parks-- that's why I stopped going to dog parks) and just rough play.

[J and Riley (and Luna)]

Luna has a best friend that she's known since 12 weeks - if you didn't know these dogs you may think they're trying to kill each other when they play!

They play VERY rough... and their greetings usually involve them just slamming into each other (kind of like sumo wrestlers).  There are a lot of crazy noises, growling and ear and tail tugging.  If one of them goes too far, play stops immediately and they "apologize" with a little licking and nuzzling... then the craziness continues ;)  

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

My two are nine months apart, so it's not quite the same as litter mates.  I let them play and for the most part stay out of it unless I thought one of them is really out of control or I think that someone might get hurt.  At times I will decide that they're going a little too far and then I separate them.  They kind of know it themselves now and as soon as I verbally correct they stop....and they always know that if I hear a "yelp" the play is over.  You'll get to know their sounds...my guys are very verbal when they're playing around...but that yelp that someone got hurt is distinctive and that's when they have to "go to their corners".

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

Finn has a best friend since puppyhood, and these two still play like puppies when they're together.  They can get very rough -- first one on top, then the other.  They body slam and chase until they exhaust themselves.  But the "underdog" always comes back for more. Finn never plays like this with his other friends, more chase, run, and explore. These two adore each other though. So I always keep an eye on them, and if there's a yelp, or it gets too rough, I'll step in and call a "time out."  A few minutes of "chilling," the "wildness" dissipates and the two of them are happy to go off, exploring together. I think you'll get a sense of when to assert yourself into the situation and I'd make sure each pup gets their own special time with you alone, for walking, training and hugs.  Two pups together sounds crazy :) but also a lot of fun.  Good luck!    

[Amy, Cubbie & Ollie]

unless one of them is getting hurt, I would let it go.  They are figuring out their playing style and will teach each other when enough is enough.  With that being said, once they have all of their shots, I would work on introducing them to other older dogs that are in the family or with friends.  The older dogs will do a great job of teaching them what type of play is acceptable.  Daycare is a good place too.  They need to learn that not all dogs like to play rough and need to learn how to read other dogs.

[Laurie, Wally & Charlotte]

It sounds to me like they're just having fun.  I would suggest, though, that you remove their collars when they're in the house.  Sometime the collars of happily wrestling dogs can get caught on each other, and then the dogs panic and can get aggressive.  

[Joyce (Casey & Cody's mom)]

Lisa if I remember correctly, you have two females - right?  I have two boys. They play hard and fight - but it really isn't serious fighting. Theirs is just rough play.  However, I also have two female dachshunds (actually have 4 dachshunds - two females and two males.)  The roughest and most aggressive fighting I have is between the two female dachshunds.  We have an alpha bitch and a wanna be!!!  The younger one is getting a bit more aggressive with her attacks and there doesn't seem to be any specific provocation. Normally, they get along fine - but occasionally a real fight will break out.  I typically just let them fight it out - there has never been any puncture wounds or blood - - in fact, normally not even much saliva. And it typically doesn't last very long. After a fight - they will just walk around growling at each other for a few minutes.  After that, they will typically all pile up on their favorite dog bed and use each other as a pillow, so all is forgiven.  However, since we got the doodles, they want to get involved, so we have to break it up if they get into a scrap.

[Lisa & Greg]

Thanks everyone. I tried to reply several days ago but kept getting error messages. We've decided to get a fence in the backyard to help them get their wiggles out outside instead of in the house. They may feel frustrated being cooped up inside and take it out on each other.