Goldendoodle puppy with seizures

[Priscilla Massuli]

Hello Everyone!  I was lucky enough to rescue a beautiful red head Goldendoodle boy.  He is just a baby.  He was 3 - 4 months old when he came to us and is now 5 - 6 months old.  We suspect he was thrown out by an unscrupulous 'breeder' due to seizures, as he was found roaming the streets with a full-bred golden retriever puppy who also suffers from medical issues.  When we began fostering him (to get him out of the shelter as soon as the 5 day mandatory hold period was up), we had no idea he had medical issues.  After 6 days of fostering him, he had what would be considered a Grand Mal Seizure.  I was intense and horrific to watch.  We let the shelter know and waited.  Nothing happened for almost two months.  Then, suddenly he had another one.  Another big one.  And then another one 6 hours later.  And another one 6 hours after that.  And a 4th one 7 hours later.  It seemed he didn't really have time to recover from the one and he'd have another one.  They got progressively more violent and the recovery time (drunken state - not knowing us) lasted much longer with each seizure.  It took him almost 10 hours to recover from the 4th seizure.  We took him to the vet twice during these cluster seizures and she ran liver tests to rule out a liver shunt.  His liver looks great and his CBC results were good.  Only elevated result was for white blood cell count - but she said it wasn't high enough to be concerned and attributed it to the stress of enduring the seizures (not infection).  So it was determined to be epilepsy.  We have been trying to find a correlation - and the only commonality between these two episodes was the moon phase at the time of each seizure.  We did give him flea meds (K9 Advantix) 5 days prior to the first seizure - but it was administered 9 days before the 2nd group of seizures.  So we're thinking that isn't it - although we're not ruling it out. I am wondering if any of you have tied the moon phase back to your pup's seizures?  And if any of you are trying more holistic or natural remedies for the seizures?  We decided not to start the pheno after this last round (as they stopped for now and we'd like to see when they start again - if they start again - to determine frequency and potential patterns).  We have the pheno script filled and in the fridge and will give it if he seizes again.  But while waiting, I'd love to hear about any holistic things anyone might be doing to lengthen the frequency between seizures and/or lessen the severity of them. 

[Priscilla Massuli]

Oh - and as an fyi - we have officially adopted this beautiful boy (he became ours about a month ago), so we are free to treat him with meds and holistic methods as we'd like.  I am proud to say that he is a permanent member of our family.  Lucky us!

[LucyR]

Don't you have to give the phenobarbital continuously to a dog that has seizures?  After the seizures begin, not sure it would be all that useful!  Check with vet to be sure about dosing!  With correct medication and dose, these epileptic dogs can lead normal lives!

[Priscilla Massuli]

Sorry - I should have been more clear.  After this cluster of seizures, we had planned to start pheno - but by the time the vet ran the tests and we were ready to start, the seizures had stopped.  He has only had two different periods of seizing - once two months ago and once a week and a half ago.  Because the seizures had stopped and because of the period of time between them, our vet wanted us to hold off on starting the pheno.  If he seizes again, we will start it immediately.  It serves to calm them down a bit during seizure activity - so it could help a bit with clustering - but you are correct in that they should remain on the drug to lessen the severity and number of seizures.  If we start the drug, we will stay on it.  But by holding off now - we can hopefully determine the length of time between seizures (pups are only recommended to be on the drugs if they seize more than 1 time per month) and maybe find a trigger.  We've kept a diary of everything we could think of - so if he has another one, we will look for similarities in circumstances.  The drug is so toxic that the vet and I hesitate to give it to him right now.  If it turns out he'll seize once every 2 months, he won't be a candidate for the drugs.  But if he clusters again like he did last time or the next seizure is within a month of the last seizure, then we'll immediately begin the meds and stay on them.  She just wants to hold of for now - hoping that seizure activity is few and far between.  In her mind, there is no reason to slowly destroy his liver with the meds without knowing how often he's really going to seize.  It's all so confusing and I hate waiting for the next episode - everyday is a waiting game and it's so difficult - but I can only imagine how difficult seizing is for his body.  So I patiently sit and wait and care for him (along witht the vet).  Fortunately, I work from home, so he is very rarely not by my side. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Hi Priscilla,

Hopefully you are familiar with the Guardian Angels K9 Epilepsy website, but if you aren't, here's a link:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm

It's the most comprehensive collection of information on epilepsy in dogs that I have seen. Just about every kind of therapy and treatment is discussed there. You may find the type of information you are looking for there. 

It's also important to remember that "holistic" only means "whole"; a truly holistic approach to any treatment involves looking at all types of medical options, not just traditional OR alternative. It's important to remember that "natural" doesn't always mean "safe", too. 

[Priscilla Massuli]

Thank you so much for the info on Guardian Angels K9 Epilepsy website.  I was not aware of it, so this is great!  Thank you!!!  Regarding holistic or natural treatments - I do agree that it involves looking and potentially utilizing all types of medical options.  We are not hesitating to use traditional meds if needed - he just isn't a great candidate for them yet, as he had two months between seizures and has only had two different periods of seizing.  An evaluation will be made next time he seizes as to whether or not he is a candidate for meds - and if he is - we will definitely start them.  Seizures are not something I'll mess around with.  I also agree that natural doesn't always mean safe - for both humans and animals.  I was hoping to learn about alternative methods people have incorporated into their seizure toolboxes that are helping (whether used alone or alongside other meds) - i.e. diet changes, massage, acupuncture, essential oils, etc.   I am also hoping to learn more about things we can give him to help make his liver stronger - if he needs to be on the pheno.  One vet we know recommended Sam-E if he starts the pheno, as it helps to protect the liver.  I haven't researched that yet.  But these are the kinds of things I'm wondering about.  Thank you again for the info on the website and for the reminder about holistic and natural.  In an effort to do right by our animals and to not fill their body with toxic substances, people can sometimes hurt their animals by not giving necessary meds.  We definitely question anything that is being put into our furbabies bodies, but we aren't against the pheno and other drugs if needed. 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It sounds like your little guy is in very good hands. I wish the best for you both. :-)

[Kirsy & Jasper]

How is your pup doing now Priscilla? Any more seizures? If so I would start on pheno. I was so against it too, because of possible liver damage, but it has become our savior drug. Here is our boy Jaspers story

http://www.corysstory.com/2012/05/jasper%E2%80%99s-story-updated-2012/

[Priscilla Massuli]

Hi There!  Sorry for not responding earlier.  I haven't been on here in quite some time.  Unfortunately, things have not gotten better with the seizures - in fact - I'm back again today because he has clustered again.  He was averaging one seizure every 6 - 7 weeks, but two days ago, the cluster seizing started again.  He endured 4 seizures in 20 hours, so we made the decision to start him on the pheno last night.  :(   He is doing well - exhausted - but that's to be expected between what he's endured and starting these meds.  I'm back to try and learn more about milk thistle - to help protect his liver now.  And any other hints, tips or suggestions that people might have.  Thanks so much for your message and concern for our sweet boy.  As you know, there is nothing like a doodle - and watching any doodle suffer just breaks our hearts. 

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

I am glad that you made the decision to start the phenobarb.  It is important for the puppy to stop the seizures.  The current thinking among most vets that deal with seizures is that an acceptable number of seizures is less than 1 every 6 months.  This has changed from once every 3 months.  Please read through the old posts about what to do during a seizure.

Our experience has been that both heartworm medications and the tic and flea medications both lower the seizure threshold.  We make sure that we give these at least 2 weeks apart.  Mariner is also very sensitive to changes in weather.

It also will take some time for the phenobarb to reach an effective level.

 

Please feel free to ask questions - we are all here to help!!