Working Toward Appropriate Play-Jake Help

[jenn D]

Hi Everyone! I hope you are all doing well. Here is my current Jake update. I’m hoping some of you can shed some light and offer some suggestions. While I’ve done my fair share of training I believe you can always learn new things and there is more than one way to solve a problem. So here goes.

First, Jake is adjusting to our family routine well. He no longer hoards water or food. My husband is in love with him which is fun to watch because he’s never had “his own dog” and he is learning to bond and train etc. As he gets comfortable with us, we see both the good and the not so good. Jake is high energy. Really high energy.  I don’t know if that’s the 75% poodle in him, the fact that he is still only 10 months, genetics or what. It doesn’t really matter, that’s what he is. We play a lot of ball around the house and squeaky toy fetch.  My husband has started taking him on daily walks just the two of them. We try to also do a family walk at another point in the day as well where the kids come along and we walk Brisby too. But my husband does a pretty brisk walk with Mr. Jake.  The second walk is kind of a long meander.

Jake loves to play. He likes to snatch something of ours and run away with it. He wants us to chase him. I get this, I am working on this. It seems he does it mostly when he needs more attention or needs an energy release.

 The problem that is the hardest for me to get a handle on is his play style with other dogs. He is VERY over the top. Jumping up on them, barking, springing lunging. He does it to Brisby who typically takes it and then when he gets tired, Brisby hops on the couch and Jake leaves him alone. But if Brisby gets down, there is Jake again. Ready to pounce and play, jumping on him. I’m lucky Brisby is so mellow he just either decides to play or gets back on the couch. But Jake does this with every dog he meets.

Maybe its because he was taken from his litter at 5 weeks. He probably doesn’t know appropriate dog play manners. It could also be exacerbated by all that time in his crate without anyone. Id really like help solving this problem.  I obviously don’t want him to be a dog playing bully but also I worry he could get hurt if an aggressive dog takes his exuberance as a threat.  Plus, I think he even stresses himself out with his intensity in play, poor guy!

Where do I start with this? He does well in his obedience classes paying attention to me or my husband. Its when its “playtime” he goes into crazy play dog!

Thanks for any help. Finally, here are some shots of Mr. Jake as of late. He loved the snow when we went for a mountain walk. Then he saw a black lab and was like “OMG I have to PLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

 

[Judy, Meg & Polly Wolly Doodle]

my brother has two labs and its the same way there, neighbors think they are seriously fighting and the younger one instigates it. Same at my house. When Meg was an only she did the same, now she gets it from Polly all the time, she will leap off the chair spead eagle onto Meg's bsck. You can try s leash and a down/stay command, we have to stay in sight fir that one because Polly's attention span is still pretty short at five months.

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

My two play like this all the time. It can be very boisterous at times. I think dogs work it out between themselves and Jake is still very young. I don't think you have too much to worry about. It's wonderful to see him doing so well. Especially that he is not water or food obsessed and that your DH has formed a special relationship with him.

[Lori, Quincy & Frankie]

No advice-just glad to hear that Jake is assimilating to the family!  He is a handsome boy as is Brisby !  

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

I really think this is another phase.  Finn was like that at that age. I thought he was going to get his "clock cleaned," by the wrong dog.  But with training and age, he mellowed out.  These two will work it out, too. Jake is so lucky to have you and Brisby. 

[Deborah Brown]

He is still new to your family and young.  I'm going to vote with the "he will mellow with age" side right now.  It sounds like Brisby is handling it well.  He'll play when he wants but then get out of Jake's way.  Jake is reading that message which is a good sign.  

What other dogs is he playing with?  Are you able to watch him carefully with other dogs?  You probably don't want to take him to a dog park with unknown dogs at this point.  You also need to have a way to break up a play that is getting too crazy.  He needs to get a rest/timeout after a few minutes.

My three wrestle quite a bit.  Penny is always the instigator.  She never tires of it.  The other two will let her know in no uncertain terms when they've had enough.

Are you still planning to add a puppy soon?  If so, Jake will have a playmate and your problem will be solved.  ;)  Just kidding!  But I think they will learn together.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

The fact that Jake was taken from his litter at 5 weeks is probably a contributing factor, and IMO, makes this situation a bit different than what other owners here may have experienced. I don't mean to worry you, but I fostered an owner relinquished Goldendoodle a while back who had been taken from his litter at 6 weeks, and both the vet and a behaviorist that the original owner consulted were very concerned about the fact that he had missed the crucial period when he would have learned bite inhibition and appropriate interaction with other dogs via play with his littermates and corrections from his mother. Puppy school and an intensive formal training program were recommended in that case, which the owner failed to follow through with, hence the dog being relinquished at 18 months of age. That dog was placed in an adoptive home with no children, a very experienced owner with a very structured household routine, and most importantly, a very dominant 1 year old male OES, who turned out to be the best "trainer" the GD could have had, because the OES made it very clear what kinds of behavior would and would not be tolerated, and issued corrections that were much more effective than any a human could have dished out, lol. Obviously, you can't turn Brisby into a dominant "enforcer", but I think that a consultation with a really good and very experienced trainer might be your best option, just to get some direction for the future. 

[jenn D]

Thanks Karen. I'll look into finding a behaviorist/advanced trainer in these areas. It's interesting when Jake was out of his crate with his original owner it was usually when the owners sister and her kids came to "rescue him" for a few hours. Jake seems incredibly well adjusted with the kiddos. But of course my kids are taught to give dogs their space too. I want the best for Mr. Jake and knowing he's here for the long hall means slow and consistent rehabilitation. I've noticed the one area that seems to get him very riled up is if they tug so I've removed those toys. Secondly, if I see it escalating and can tell Jakes getting spun up I try to refocus both dogs by asking them for a sit or down. Not sure if this is correct, just going with what I know. My main concern is if this is just the way he will always be because he missed the crucial socialization or if with time, support and training if this can be overcome.

[Deborah Brown]

You can't "undo" whether or not he missed that early socialization.  You just have to go forward from here.  My rescue Wayne has a very hard time coming down from play.  He takes a low dose of Prozac every day which helps immensely.  I'm not suggesting this is right for Jake - just pointing out that dogs have this issue.

I think it is a great idea to refocus the dogs by asking them to sit.  If Jake can do this, then he is not "out of control".  He probably is not mature enough to give himself breaks so you need to tell him when its time.

I've been thinking about Jake a lot today.  I think Wayne was also not good at social play.  I didn't realize it at first but Charlie did.  If we were with a group of dogs and Wayne was getting excited, Charlie would literally cut him from the group by running between him and the other dogs.  He also did this with Wayne and Penny when she was young.  Now that Wayne has learned how to play with Penny appropriately, Charlie no longer steps in.  You might not want to hear this but Wayne turned 6 today and it took him a LONG time to learn to play appropriately.

[jenn D]

Deborah,
I'm ok if it takes awhile. I just want to make sure I put in place everything we need to now to help him later. I am happy he can "break" from crazy play when I ask. H just has tons of energy. But looking in his eyes, I see a thankfulness. And when he is resting he leans against either my husbands or my legs. Even though he is 10 months his behavior seems more like a 5 or 6 month puppy. Yup, a 45 lb puppy (we put 3 lbs on our skinny boy. Hurray!).

[Deborah Brown]

Maybe he's catching up from all the puppy play he missed.  :)

One of the exercises I do with all the dogs is called "relaxation protocol".  I don't think it's very relaxing for them yet but it is teaching them self control.  The dog just sits on a rug while the trainer does different activities.  It's the dog's job not to react but to just sit/lay there and get rewarded.  It starts out with just 5-10 second stays and progresses to the trainer leaving the room, jumping around, etc.  The sessions are available as an mp3 download which makes it easy to do with your dog.  I complicate it by having all three dogs do it at once.  (No one ever wants to be left out.)  The dogs need to learn the "go to mat/rug/whatever" command before starting.

Here's a link:  http://championofmyheart.com/relaxation-protocol-mp3-files/

[DonMarie and Picco]

I use to have a husky mix that had socialization problems, mostly too energetic and intense when playing and would run off alot.  I explained this to a woman I met that has raised generations of sled dogs. The first thing she said was that the pup was separated too early. I got her at 4-1/2 weeks. The good news was that age 2 she really mellowed but still had some problems around other dogs and still had the need to wander (but that is typical for huskies).  Jack is a beautiful dog and I hope he mellows out soon.

[Bonnie and Kona]

Thank you for posting the photos… they are wonderful! It's great to hear how attached your husband has become with Jake. I wish I had an answer for you. Owen was/is the same way with Kona. We got him at 8 weeks and he just is all about rough-housing. When it gets to be too much, Kona gets to come up on the couch… all 90 pounds of him. This has been true since he was a tiny pup. It has calmed down because he is 3 yo now, but still happens most days at some point. I hope you get some good pointers.