Small breeder versus large?

[Wendy and Sophie]

Anyone have thoughts on going with a smaller breeder versus large?  There seem to be some well loved larger operations that have full staffs, etc.  Seems like there may be more opportunity to get just what you want in terms of size, type.  However I don't know if there are any negatives (other than price); there are some groups on doodle kisses dedicated to these puppy owners and they seem to love their breeders.

We had been on the list with a smaller, home-based breeder, and just got booted, do to some health reasons for the breeder.  So now we are starting from scratch,  and I'm looking at breeders that also offer at least a month of training.  I'm not looking for recommendations in this discussion; I know that's prohibited on this site.  But if anyone wants to chime in (either in this discussion or privately) about using one of the more "big operation" breeders with staffs, etc that would be great!

It's tough having to regroup and start over after being on a wait list for six months! Any thoughts you can share would be terrific.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Wendy, Have you read this information?

http://www.doodlekisses.com/notes/What_To_Look_for_In_a_Breeder

Personally, I would go with a smaller breeder and be very uncomfortable getting a puppy from a large operation like you described. I immediately think puppy mill. Any place that breeds a large number of dogs and all kinds of varieties is suspect, in my mind. I also hate the idea that it seems like catalog shopping for a puppy.

It is tough to wait, but this is a 15 year commitment and you want to get it right, to the best of your abilities.

As far as leaving your puppy with the breeder to train for one month.....or are you talking about helping YOU train for one month?.....I think you would be missing out on some critical bonding time with your puppy if left at the breeders. This is such a fun and rewarding time and it's a PUPPY....I wouldn't want to miss out on a thing. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[Jill, Woody & Maxi]

I 100% agree with thinking that large operation means catalog shopping..in my opinion, there is no way you can focus on the quality of the dog with that many dogs..sizes, types, etc.

Do you research..and def read that article that Laurie posted..you want a breeder that stands behind their dogs from beginning to end, health testing, straight forward, honest answers.

Many breeders will introduce the puppies to the crate a few days/week before you bring the puppy home..which I think is a huge help.  As far as having the breeder actually train your future puppy…IMO, you are ultimately going to the be the one to do the training, so like Laurie also said, I would sooner rather have the puppy home, training and bonding with me, rather than staying with the breeder!

Best of luck!

[Wendy and Sophie]

Thanks so much!  I will reread the article; it's been about six months since we were looking at breeders. :-)

[Adina P]

I've never experienced leaving my puppy for training, so I can't speak to its actual effectiveness for those families that have gotten that service.  To me, having worked hard in training with a couple of dogs, my opinion on puppy training is that it is kind of overkill.  Here's why.  Young puppies learn certain things really fast.  They are kind of 'easy' to train.  But it doesn't matter because it all goes to pot in a few months and it is that training (that happens in a few months) that is actually likely to STICK and make a well behaved adult dog (provided you don't quit training and still refresh your dogs memory with practice).  I can teach a puppy (and so can you) to 'sit' on command, lay 'down' on command, do a trick, etc.  They are smart and pick things up fast.  But that's different than the training where a dog is reliable and response reliably to commands.  Honestly with my 4 year old dog, I pretty much didn't bother training her at all until she was about 5.5 months.  At that point I enlisted her in my own 'boot camp' ;-) and spent 30 minutes (initially) to an hour (as she got older) in training her 5-6 days a week all over town.  I could heel (on leash) with her into a dog park and she would heel and sit and stay and behave quite well.  Then I had a second child and it's been two years and her training is not worth much now.  So for me, it would be a waste of money to let a breeder do 'puppy training' because it would make it take longer for me to get my pup and I know that the training *I* did with her would matter more in the long run.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I so agree with this. 

[Wendy and Sophie]

Thanks for your insights, Adina. I appreciate it.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Everyone loves their doodle no matter where he or she came from; I love mine, and he came from a pet store, so puppy mill. 

I have seen people recommend known puppy brokers like Purebred Breeders LLC as a great place to get a doodle. Personal recommendations mean nothing, and if the dog in question is less than 3 years old, less than nothing.

I personally know of some pretty horrendous genetic diseases in doodles that have come from some of the big breeders with staff, etc., including some that have groups here. I wouldn't take a pup from them if it was free. I would stick with the smaller breeders who do not have dozens of litters each year. 

Remember that color, sex, size and type really are meaningless over the long run. Health and temperament are everything when you are choosing a dog who is going to be living in your home with your family for the next 12-16 years. 

[Wendy and Sophie]

I really appreciate the information, Karen.  Good thoughts to keep in mind as we continue our search.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

My experience with a small breeder has been exceptional and I talk directly with the breeder from beginning and I can for the life of my dogs. I don't want to deal with "Staff" who won't be there in 3 years should I have questions and they have no idea of what litter, parents or even who I am.
There are many breeders in our recommended lists here on DK that, if you don't mind shipping, can probably accomodate you quite well and quite quickly as they could still have pups available from a recent litter or a soon to be born litter. I shipped both of mine and had no problem at all.

The training at 8-12 weeks, is mostly forgotten if not reinforced for months and months to come, so either way you are training the dog yourself anyway. I'd rather have my pup with me by 8-10 weeks to get him acclumated to my home and then train as needed. Good luck as I know the deciding and waiting are the hardest parts of getting a dog in my opinion.

[Wendy and Sophie]

Some very good points, Sue.  Thanks so much for writing and sharing your insights. I had not thought about having a dog shipped; it's good to hear this worked well for you.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

If you will consider shipping, it will open up a wide range of options for you. You will read good and bad about shipping experiences, however, I have never known a doodle on DK who was badly injured or suffered during shipping as many of the horror stories you can read about.
Also I think doodle breeders, especially the smaller ones, really care about their puppies, and want to make the trip as stress free as possible for them. I can give you the name of my breeder, she's on my page as well. And I know she loves to travel and you never know when she's coming your way. A shipping from Michigan to NC would be a non stop flight anyway.

[Wendy and Sophie]

Thanks so much, Sue.  I will check them out.