Three puppies in a litter of eight died

[Leslie, Yogi & Maci Bear]

Is this concerning? The litter I'm getting Yogis sister from had three pups die. Breeder said that dogs have two tubes and they can conceive multiple times in 10days. But when they are delivered, they all come out, so the last three born were the ones who died. Should I be concerned about their health?

Here is also something she added :

I was at the GANA Conference last weekend and the Vet speaker said 60% of puppies born do not make it; which all of the breeders in the room said no way we very seldom lose puppies. All the breeders agreed that this must be when they are born in the wild. The Vet said that breeders should let mother nature take its course and not try endlessly to save a failing puppy because these puppies potentially are the ones to develop health problems later in life. Again all the breeders disagreed stating sometimes a puppy needs just a little assistance. The Vet pointed out that there is a difference between a little help and a lot of help. This all said the remaining puppies are very healthy rest assured.

Concerning?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

That's very sad. Do you know what caused the deaths? 

[Sam, Risa and Archie]

Not that I know, but just a guess....although it sounds concerning, I think its a good thing that the breeder at least told you.  She/he could have easily hid this news from you. 

Its absolutely saddening what happened to these puppies, but I think the fact that she told you shows loyalty and trust which may be difficult to find in most shady breeders.

Just a guess....

[Leslie, Yogi & Maci Bear]

She made it sound like they were of a different gestational age, so preemies.

[Jennifer and Jack]

I give the breeder credit for being honest with you. Our breeder has lost puppies before and has always told us...one time the mother rolled over on one and it died..... I don't know, I think the breeder sounds honest if not anything else.....

[Sally S Miles]

It is not abnormal, nor is it normal - in other words - information is correct.   If there had been five pups and three died, more concern. Nature has a way and humans have another, this battle has been going of for eons.   I think 60% is a high figure, but  that's just me.  I used to breed cats...  

Ten days missing from gestation is a lot for a puppy, indeed there could be as much as that and yet the delivery of one litter does trigger the action for all.  Their little lungs and other systems are not quite ready if there is such a gap.

The breeder telling you is a good thing, not good news, but as before you have to trust that your pup is healthy.  

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

I have a good sense about a few things about this breeder. The fact that she told you, and explained it to you, and that she attends GANA Conferences and networks with other breeders. All very note worthy and to her credit I feel. I dont get a sense of concern here.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I don't think it is necessarily a cause for concern, but I would want to know for sure what caused the deaths. I would not guess or assume, I would ask. I hope it's not that they were a different gestational age, because that doesn't sound like a very good breeding practice to me.  

I also don't agree that the breeder deserves any special credit for telling you that three of the pups died. She told you originally how many were in the litter, didn't she? And posted pictures? And posts photos of the litter on her website as they grow, like most breeders do, doesn't she?  Puppies at 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 4 weeks, etc. It would seem kind of strange if all of a sudden three of them were missing. And of course, if she took more than five deposits, she would have to inform people. 

I am truly not trying to criticize the breeder, but I think it's important for you to have the facts. I hope all of the remaining pups are very healthy. 

[Leslie, Yogi & Maci Bear]

Karen,
Here is her earlier explanation:
Yes, Molly lost another puppy. Down to five pups. We were with Molly when the pups were born and put yarn collar markers on them and recorded the order the pups were born. The three that perished were born last. This tells me they were is the second gestation tube and were preemies; they never gained weight despite our hard work. The remaining are fat, healthy, and have tripled their weight. Dogs have two gestation tubes and can conceive twice up to ten days apart; when a dog goes in labor all the puppies are born at the same time. I have two puppies from Molly that I kept for breeding and the fully tested out. So as far health that is not a concern.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I am trying to wrap my brain around this. So this breeder bred the dog twice during the same heat but far enough apart that there was a significant difference in the age of the puppies? Knowing that when the puppies from the first breeding were at full term, all of them would be born, including the second group who would be born prematurely??? Why would anyone do that? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Also, unless the two puppies that she kept from Molly are two years old or more, they cannot have "tested out". Prelims mean nothing, and there are many health issues for which testing is not available. 

[Sally S Miles]

Very valid concerns - as well as the spacing with breeding, this is something that is risky at best and makes me curious as to how many dogs? How is her stud/bitch handled ?  Are the dogs just tossed together for a time or is someone supervising the activities?  Generally a three of five day span is all that is taken, two full weeks to plant a seed is asking for trouble.   In this instance I would insist on full vet follow up prior to accepting a pup, not just a once over with a smile and not just a vaccination record.  

I also have seen a lot of 'cleared by parentage' on breeders sites, easy to hit the close button.

Keeping two pups from the same dam for a breeding program is frankly a bit odd, one would suffice in order to keep a line, but two ? 

[Leslie, Yogi & Maci Bear]

Sally, she said she kept a girl one year, then a boy the next
Also there was only one sire used. I don't know how it works. Do breeders allow
them to attempt it 2-3 times?

[Ginny Nightingale]

I agree with Sue--she did not have to say anything and seems to know her stuff--I have heard of one or two dying now and then--and usually because they are very small and can't compete with the others or latch on to a nipple. A little assistance goes a long way in that case and if you watch over them they catch up and do just fine. I often let a bigger pup get the milk flowing and then move him and let the little pup have that spot. In a few days, that little one is doing fine and in the few instances where I have had to help them out, they have grown up to be healthy dogs.

I think that ten days is a long time for breeding though--the eggs are released over a shorter time-but again four or five days can make a big difference.

If the other pups seem hale and hearty, it seems like all will be well.