Your experiment

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

My neighbor just adopted two new rescue dobermans. A two-year old breeding and bonded pair who were seen on video camera being dumped at a shelter and in bad shape ( note that they are now healthy after being in foster care several months)

 

In the past she has had 40- 60 fosters( I've heard all kinds of numbers but can verify many have come through her home) and it was not uncommon to have 5 of her own.   All now have passed on in the recent two years. 

With relationship to Spud all her dobermans, once he came along, were older than 9 years old. Very different ages than puppy-5 year old Spud. Old dogs who could care less about a puppy or play. 

We have always gotten along however I dont much agree with her training  and her instance that dogs do not play or wrestle together.  To each their own. I love a good romping playtime.  Not all dogs can wrestle and roll together but once in a while you will see two dogs that enjoy each other so much and you can feel their bond for each other and love. 

She always let puppy Spud come over to be socialized and everything went well playing briefly in her yard small spurts at a time. He was, on one other occasion, bit by one of her fosters. It happens. That's understandable.  

Here is the problem.   She asked Spud to come over because she was having problems with the male. He has a high prey drive, wont pay attention in the yard, has absolutely no focus, and keeps jumping in her koi pond and attacking her fish.  The pond has an expensive net and he has tangled himself up in the net... etc.  

Even though my neighbor is younger than I am, she is in poor health and cant handle him.  She has been dragging out the times she takes them outside because she hates going outside with him.  

She wanted Spud as a distraction.  It might have worked if he was allowed to smell and figure out the new dog but she used her spray bottles every time he approached.

I was handed dog mace to use if male doberman went towards the pond.  I refused. 

The other dog is female and she is a shy, submissive dog with zero tolerance.  

She guards the outdoor water dish and guards her male partner.

She was an instigator somewhat.  Whenever Spud went to get a drink, she reacted. Whenever Spud went to walk close to her male, she reacted.

I asked my neighbor, twice, to remove the female. It was obvious to me, Spud was very uncomfortable and did not understand why I would have him here.  Once a place of peace, now a guarded territory.

She removed the female, twice, but I could hear the separation anxiety from her screams inside the home.  My neighbor gave in and once again let her out.   At this time, it was clear the male was intense on discovering his surroundings, like she described and Spud was just something in passing.  That's okay with me.  Sometimes both would initiate play, but that was sprayed away.  

On the third release of the female, I said to Spud, " Hey buddy, I can see and feel your anxiety. I agree, you are not having fun. It is certainly time to leave. She does not like you and it is not fair for you to be bit, once again, in the face"

My neighbor is not happy with my comments.  We tried to hash it back and forth in a text message.

My response was,  I know my dog. He was miserable in a hostile environment. He was not comfortable and why would I do that to my friendly dog.

I always feel bad because I know Spud is very lonely.  But not all dogs get along.  Actually, I think like humans, dogs find few rewarding relationships. The relationships that are rewarding are wonderful and life-long lasting many times.

I think I'm just babbling here.  

I understand we use well-adjusted dogs to help foster dogs or dogs from bad situations, but how many times.... I think I am just puzzled by the no play but it is okay to show teeth and bite?  WTD?

I did, in a civil manner, point out the no contact between the male dogs and I thought it should e have been sprayed away. I did say, I was not happy with the female, at all, and should have remained inside.  

Her argument was she has had many dogs and I, well.... I just have one over-sensitive dog and I am inexperienced? .  Right

Even a dumb owner knows this situation was not going well

[Cheryl and Finnegan]

I'm having a hard time understanding this woman would think it's ok to use Spud as a "decoy" and risk his getting seriously hurt. Amen to what Karen said! Kudos to Spud for being as good natured as he is, and you for saying enough is enough.  

[Emily, Bentley, & Maserati]

Agree!

[Janie, Jackson and Jilly]

Is she for real?! I agree, enough is enough!

[Gail and Bailey]

Of course you are right for protecting your wonderful Spud!!  Sounds to me like this woman should not be fostering dogs if it is such a problem for her.  Seems like her fish are her priority!  

[Deborah Brown]

Wow!  It sounds like she needs some serious help with these two dogs.  I hope she is working with a rescue group that has a behaviorist available to her.  Meanwhile, I agree that you need to keep Spud out of it.

[DJ & Chance]

You don't owe her anything but you owe Spud love and protection.  Right choice, Joanne, in my view.

[Laurie, Fudge, and Vern]

Keeping Spud safe is your first concern....period :) Karen said it perfectly. Originally, I wanted our gate to go past the pond, but John said that was a bad idea. We knew the dogs would want to go in there and if they rip the liner, it would be a disaster. She needs to fence that pond. This sounds like a bad situation for all.

[jenn D]

Oh dear. It sounds like she wants Spud and you to do what she should be doing. Good for you for standing your ground and speaking for Spud. I really am astonished she expected you guys to "help" her in that way and got upset when you rightfully said no. Joanne, you did the right thing. She really needs help with these dogs but from a professional. I can't fathom why she thinks adding another dog to the mix to "help" would work! I don't know anyone who would advocate bringing in a neutral (or ANY) dog into that situation. I'm really sorry if this creates neighbor-stress. That is never any fun. :(

[Lynda Kamrath]

I had two fosters in April that were very bonded with each other.  In fact, I saw something that I have never seen before.  The female actually took a treat from me and took it to the male (younger) who was in the back of the car (parked in the garage with a ramp out the back).  He just barked all night and ran back to the car whenever we came near.  Jacqui said they needed to be separated and they had come from the same home in Oregon.  Well, she was right.  As soon as the female was gone, the male became much more approachable.  They are both on their way to furever homes but he is going to require a little more time than the female.  I would say the same with these two.  They need to be separated for them to be able to adjust to new situations.  Maybe it is time for you to get another dog for Spud.

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Don't know if I always agree with this concept. Most of the time, I don't. I do think one of the dogs, the more confident, does fine where the dependent dog does not. Some get better, some never do. Sad. Extremely sad to break the bonds of family.
Now, I've read the articles that are pro break, but not all agree with this solution.
I don't think there is a good choice, as far as humans and future relationships are concern.
It's an animal pack mentality most humans will never understand.
Seems it is a written rule, but I think breaking a bonded situation is very serious, with life altering results for dogs and needs to be on a case by case situation.
Do we seperate the Whale pods?
It's a tough call. Glad I don't have to make it

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

PS- no, it is not time for us to get another dog. What I would love is a weekly playdate. That is plenty for me and I think for him too. I think if I could ask him, he would agree!

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

Thank you all.
I have come to the conclusion, I've caused this.
We have probably all been in this situation. Someone who we have helped in rough times because that's what neighbors should do. Be a good neighbor. Cook, mow, dogsit, and so many orher things because of illness or rough times, we reach out, roll up our sleeves and help.
We, as mostly woman, have all met ' The Helpless / Needy Chick'
I can't mow, because I never have! Two years ago, when her husband died, she claimed she was too depressed to pick up dog poo. Really! No lie. I did put my foot down on that one and tell her exercise would help her depression.

I've enabled this situation because of good nature, good manners. My fault.

So, I suppose it came down to the welfare of my dog to make me realize all this. I would love to help, that's just me, but I've enough to do. Neighbors help those who help themselves and she is just helpless!! No, is the word of the day