4 months: Potty Training Regression!

[Ollie's Mom]

We started training Ollie on the bell around 10 weeks. He seemed to "get it" for the most part, sometimes he would ring the bell then pee on the floor or run to the door and pee which was ok because at least he was NEAR the back door.  Then when he would have an accident on the floor we would say "NO!" then bring him right now.. so he hasn't done very well with the bells lately.  Well yesterday he had his first playdate in HIS backyard with a grown doodle and it went well but then Ollie had like 6 accidents last night (none of which we saw .. somehow)! I do think my 10 year old may have given him a big bowl of water. The last pee puddle broke the straw from my husband, he yelled and rubbed Ollie's nose near it. My question is, is this normal? to have really bad nights accidents wise? And how do I get him back on track? Just make his paw hit the bell and treat him when he goes outside?

I would think by 4 ish months he would sort of have potty training down. OH! and last week he busted out of the crate (neighbor didn't close it correctly) and he roamed the house for FIVE hours. Pee'd/pooped on the hardwood floor and chewed up a book but no major damage thank goodness.  I just want to be a good mama to Ollie but I'm not sure if I should be strict when I find an accident (show it to him) or ignore that it happened and reward good potty habits.  oh and he DOES know when he does it because he will go hide in his room and act all submissive. Stinker.  Any tips?

[Kate, Mel, Tenley & Harper]

Do not rub his nose in it. That's completely ineffective and will actually make him MORE likely to do it. Sending mixed messages is just going to muddy the water.

To your other point, if he has an accident while you're out, you cannot correct him for it unless you catch him in the act. That will also send mixed messages and he won't understand. Don't even bother wasting your breath :) When he acts all submissive, he's reacting to your energy but not connecting it to the actual peeing in the house unless you catch him in the act.

A dog isn't truly house trained until 6-7 months of age. They may never have an accident after 3 months, but you shouldn't trust them until about that age. 

Go back to the basics-- reward him every time he goes out. Take him out every hour. Restrict water access after 7pm and even during the day. I took Tenley out every 1-1.5 hours until 6 months, then extended it to every 2.5 hours for a month, then 3.5 hours, and now at almost 14 months he goes out about 4 times a day, every 4-4.5 hours. I weaned him off the "rewards" for doing his business by 4 months, but every now and then I would mix one in just for the heck of it and to tell him I appreciated it. 

[Laura and Angus]

I totally agree! Consistency and a good clear schedule that is repeated each day will help them learn how where they can and cannot potty more quickly. 

[Laura and Angus]

Ugh I'm sorry to hear you guys are having a tough time with the training! There are so many things to work on with puppies!! Our Angus is 4 months old now too, so I hear ya. From the reading/researching I was doing when we first got Angus, everything I read said that you should only "punish" - as in say No!! - when you catch them in the act and then rush them outside to praise them for peeing out there. That is the only way they'll associate potty-ing inside with something they shouldn't do. Otherwise, sadly, it's a missed opportunity and you have to take a moment to figure out what went wrong. We still watch Angus like a HAWK! Exhausting, but he hasn't had an accident since the first couple weeks we had him (back at 12/13 weeks). We always know where he is and keep him on the same floor as us. Does Ollie have a specific feeding schedule? It has really helped us to know when Angus is eating/drinking because then we know when he'll have to go potty. Like you said, after vigorous play and/or drinking lots of water - expect they'll have to potty within 10-30 min (depending on how long your guys holds it at this point).

Right now, Angus usually lets us know he has to go out by pawing and/or sitting at the door. We know it's urgent because he cries/whines or scratches at the door and then turns to bark at us. It might be a matter of learning Ollie's signals --- or if he doesn't have any yet ...if you see him sniffing around in circles, grab him and get him out immediately. 

Anyways, hopefully that helps a little? That is what has worked for us. Vigilance seems to be key until they're older. And if you can't be with them - they can nap in the crate or in a pen/room with some toys. 

[Ollie's Mom]

Thanks guys! Look at all these black doodles! I think what is most frustrating is getting the hubby and 2 kids (ages 10 and 8) onboard! It's like I tell them what to do then they get frustrated with Ollie and don't do it. So, that's part of the problem!  How much does Angus weigh?  Ollie is 15 weeks and is 18-19 lbs. I thought he would be bigger by now. I use a 1/2 cup measuring cup to scoop out his food and give him one heaping scoop at 7:30am, one at 4:30pm and one at 7:30pm but last evening I DID give him some extra at 6pm ish, kept standing over his bowl barking!  I am weaning him off some Costco puppy food onto Canidae. 

[Laura and Angus]

Haha! I didn't even notice all our pups are black :) Yayyy. I hear you though...consistency (even between two people) is tough, so I can't imagine the whole family. Not to mention no matter how much you're doing right, it's still frustrating because they're babies and they will never learn as fast as we want them to. Angus will be 17 weeks on Friday and he weights 27 pounds. We feed him 3 times a day (5/5:30am, 12/12:30pm, and 5:30pm). We also stop giving Angus water around 8pm. In terms of feeding, we give Angus 3/4 cup (plus or minus a little depending) each time and give him about 30 minutes to eat his food. We take his food away if he has left it (uninterested) - we want him to learn that he gets his food at certain times - this also helps us stay on our schedule.

I would say give food at specific times - you have to follow the portions that it has on the food package to find out how much to give since each food has different nutritional ratios. Outside of that, Angus gets lots of treats when we do training activities (like turkey) or a bully stick or a jerky stick as snacks. I think, while the whole family is learning how to teach puppy, you may want to make a space to keep the puppy so people know where he is at all times - they have those big playpens, but if those don't fit, maybe just putting up some baby gates, so he can't have too much space to roam freely. At least not until you know he has learned that outside is where you potty.

[Malenie Piscetelli]

Every puppies are different. Lucy was 6 mos potty trained. Mostly are between 4 to 12 mos old. What I did every time she did her thing. I give her a treat. I took her out every 30 mins to an hour when she was 3 to 5 mos old. When she was about 8 mos or less now she goes out 5 times a day. She just turned one years old last week. Only thing left house broken she is not there yet.

[Robin & Josie]

Agree with most of the other answers with a couple of additions:

1. As trained as your puppy may "appear", they are not fully trained until one year old. Just when you think they have it, their immaturity may kick in. Some puppies never have an accident from 12 weeks, but you can't depend on it. Josie is 19 months and had an accident last week when I waited too long to take her out. I found that most of her accidents after about 5 months were attributable to us not paying attention to her signals ("Josie, why are you so whiny?" Sometimes, I wonder about myself.....)

2. Bells - Josie didn't take to the bells as well as others I have heard/read about, but she certainly gets it now. She gets it so well that she hits those bells whenever she wants to go outside - regardless of the reason. If we've just taken her out and she's done it all, then we know she's just being manipulative. This happens most often when someone she loves leaves the house.

3. Lastly, have your pup checked for a urinary tract infection. There is no good reason for uncontrolled peeing after a play date, as long as you make sure he has an opportunity to pee before coming inside (maybe even twice...)

Puppies do regress and then, as noted above, it can help to treat them right after they go - Not when you get back inside (they know the difference and you don't want them rushing back in before they're done for the treat). Our trainer advocated treating until you have an accident free month. Naturally, as soon as we hit the month, she had an accident and we had to start all over again. 

Good luck. This will all pass and you won't even remember all the work it took to get there. Also, please tell your husband that if he's pissed off at the dog, go to another room. Even if you think your puppy knows he's done a bad thing, he doesn't. He's a baby, and we should try not to  attribute human feelings and thoughts to them, even though they seem so smart.

Hope this helps. 

[Laura and Angus]

Good points! We have a manipulative puppy on our hands too! Of course, at this age you can never be too sure - about a month ago, Angus went potty and then when he came back inside he was back at the door a few minutes later and we were all, "Get out of here you just went potty, you just want to go play outside." And naturally, a few minutes later he peed on the floor! We take him out every time he shows us his "signals" now - though he can definitely control his bladder longer at this point and seems to know that outside is where he goes, so we're less worried about a sudden issue. Crazy baby puppies :) 

[Rosemary (Ro) and Enzo]

All great answers. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, do not rub his nose in it. This does absolutely no good and good worsen the situation. Would you rub your toddlers nose in it??? At 4 months, he can not be expected to be truth worthy on notifications. Back to basics....out every 1hr, after each nap, after eating.

[Laura and Angus]

Back to basics is a good idea...also don't forget out after lots of play or excitement (aka playdates) :)

[Susan & Randy's Kate]

It may just be my experience with my current and past 20 dogs but the males always seemed a little more stubborn.  We don't crate the dogs so unless I hear or see them head to the door there has been accidents even with the two year old puggle Finn.  We recently put up a bell on the inside and outside.  When Kate was four months we had just got her.  She got in on the new carpet and immediately peed.  I have to admit our Kate was the easiest but there has still been a couple of incidents recently.  She learned where to go from the other dogs.  They usually go at the edge of the woods so you don't have to worry about stepping into things.  Anyway, he is normal and it is all worth it in the end.  Kids don't all train on the same schedule.  We had two kids that when ready trained themselves, one in three days.  So hang in there.