Delayed Spay - did you / would you?

[Lily and Rocky]

My doodle is almost six months old, and at her last vet appointment the vet said we might want to consider a delayed spay because Ginger 1) pees when she meets new people and 2) had what *might* have been a UTI when she was 3 months old.  The vet is concerned that spaying at the normal time might lead to incontinence later in life.  In Ginger's defense, she can hold it for 10 hours at night (and has been able to since we got her at 8 weeks) and *never* pees in her crate.  So I don't think there's any actual incontinence at play here, just extreme excitement when meeting people (she also crawls on the ground and whines so much people often ask if she's hurt).  I'm also not sure the UTI was actually a UTI, as we never got her urine tested, just used antibiotics.  

I'm leaning toward getting Ginger spayed soon, as opposed to waiting until a few months after her first heat.  I've been told that there's a greater risk of mammary cancer if we wait to spay until after the first heat, and also I don't know how I'll deal with a dog in heat with three small children underfoot - my trainer said just to crate her all day, but she would howl all day (and my youngest child would cry for her dog....).  

Anyway, I'd love to hear if anyone decided to do a late spay, and if so, what made you decide to do it.  Alternatively, anyone with an excited piddler find that they grew out of it?  

Thank you!

[Katie]

My previous dog, Ruff, was an excited piddler. He grew out of it all by himself by 12-15 months.

Neutering him (6 months) made no difference either way.

Katie.

[Helga, Nimbus, Sierra, Clooney]

I'm interested in the answer to that, too. My Sierra is always sticky around her vulva. And the vet said it was puppy vaginitis. I heard that it might go away if I delayed spaying until after her first heat.

[Lily and Rocky]

Helga, this is what a vet friend of mine wrote when I asked her about delaying spaying.  Please take with the caveat that she's never seen my dog, I just asked her opinion on late spays. 

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Waiting until after a heat to spay is something I only have done in ONE type of case - that is when dogs have a "puppy vaginitis" that generally is characterized by vaginal discharge, which often leads to excessive vulvar licking. Incontinence can also cause excessive licking, so it can be hard to tell the difference - but generally with true incontinence you would be noticing more than just "yay new people and I'm submissive and I'll pee!" type stuff - urine spots on bedding, leaking during sleep, urine drops when she gets up suddenly, etc. The urination when dogs meet people is usually more of a behavioral issue than a medical one.
A UTI in a 3 month old puppy is worth noting, since it's unusual and sometimes the signs are actually signs of vaginitis and not a true bladder infection. If signs recurred I'd be sure to do a urine culture with a sample taken directly from the bladder via needle (cystocentesis) rather than one that is caught in a cup after having passed through the vagina where there can be white blood cells and bacteria from a vaginitis. The bonus is that the culture would tell you exactly what bacteria were present in the bladder if a true bladder infection were present, and a susceptibility would be included so the appropriate med could be used. Antibiotics in puppies are such a commonplace thing but can wreak havoc on the development of normal GI flora so always best to be sure they are needed.

From what I know of true incontinence (not just submissive/excited urination), it is POSSIBLE that the problem might be exacerbated by spaying early - however the studies are controversial. But, allowing a dog to go through a heat before spaying WILL significantly increase her chances of developing mammary cancer later - that is pretty much undisputed at this point. Unless you are sure Ginger has either true incontinence or vaginitis, I don't know that letting her go through a heat will benefit her in any way. Cleanup during a heat is definitely annoying but probably not what would drive my decision here.

I hope that helps? Let me know if it doesn't make sense. Again, not my intention to contradict your vet in any way, and it's hard to be sure what I would advise you to do without an exam and lab results and a more detailed history - but based on the info you gave, this is what I would tell you if Ginger were my patient.

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[Helga, Nimbus, Sierra, Clooney]

Thank you, Lily! This is certainly interesting.

I can't help but wonder why it is that most vets suggest not letting a dog go into heat / have a litter before they are getting spayed. 

Why would it be the exact opposite as with humans? Humans who breastfeed have a lower chance of breast cancer. Do they only tell us that dogs have a higher chance because they want to reduce the number of unwanted puppies? Or is it truly the opposite?

[Stephanie and Ragley]

Ragley did (sometimes does) excited pees and, like Katie, there was no change before/after the spay. If I remember correctly, Ragley was about 9 months when I spayed her. I wanted to get as close to that first heat as possible without her actually going into heat (cancer risks you have mentioned already). I can't imagine living without her so the idea of increasing her risk of cancer exponentially by allowing her to have a cycle and missing out on YEARS with her was not even close to worth it for me. Hope this helps! :)

[Lily and Rocky]

I feel the same way - I'd rather deal with some incontinence as she ages as opposed to cancer.  

[Amy and Annabelle]

I have a mini goldendoodle. I wanted to get her spayed before she goes into heat. I have heard that the smaller the dog the earlier they go into heat.She weighs less than 10lbs now. I found out from my vet today that they don't do spays before 6 months. She just turned 5 months old and I am afraid she will go into heat before then. That is another month away. I have never had a female dog. I have just heard they attract every male dog around when they are in heat. I worry about taking her out early some morning and us being attacked by male dogs. I live out in the country so it could happen. So between that and cancer I was hoping to do it now. I am thinking about taking her somewhere else for the spay, but the vet probably wouldn't be too happy. I really like him with everything else.

[Lynda Kamrath]

We also live out in the country and I get male dogs for that very reason.  I have them neutered early, but one of my neighbors had a female dog who went into heat and my poor goldendoodle clawed the fence until his pads were broken to try to get out.  And he was neutered.  They have no idea they cannot be of service to the female.  It is just natural for them to want to be with the female.  The girl from that home sometimes house sat for me and watered my plants.  I asked if her dog was in heat and she said yes, so I knew what the problem was.  It is not a very neighborly thing to do to have a bitch in heat, even if you are in the country.  In the past when I had a female airedale, I could give her some medication that took away the heat smell and she could even be in the same house with other dogs and they did not bother her.  I don't know if that is still available, but I strongly recommend early spaying.  I have also seen dogs getting it on through a chain link fence.  Spaying and neutering is cheaper through your local YMCA and some vets have spay clinics so you might want to check that out.  I would not worry about making your vet happy.

[Amy and Annabelle]

Thanks Lynda. I tried to find medication on the web and the only thing I found was some spray from 4 Paws. It didn't get very good ratings. Lust Buster did, but they must not make it anymore because I couldn't find it anywhere. I just saw it mentioned in old articles. But after reading they can also attract coyotes, I am taking her somewhere else and not waiting until she is 6 months. I do not want to chance anything. I did run across someone who said her flea and tick spray smells so bad the boys don't come near her dog when she is in heat.

[Lynda Kamrath]

There are some dangers in everything and the best argument I have heard about delaying neutering or spaying is that their joints may not be developed at an early age.  This was from my friends who do rather vigorous agility with their dogs.  I usually have my pups neutered or spayed before I even take possession, but have waited a few months and that is fine too. Dogs in heat can be a pain so if I don't want to deal with that get her spayed at your earliest convenience.  Make an appointment at your local SPCA or your trusted vet.