Time for medication for Stew. Need Advice & help please!

[Jess & Stewart]

We had a training session Monday night. Earlier that day, Stew went in crate in the morning, then busted out of it. He scratched at the doors until one unlocked, squeezed out one side, got partially stuck, then crate toppled over him and he managed to get out. Now yet another thing to traumatize him and make the anxiety WORSE!!!!

Trainer said Stew's behavior raises MANY red flags.

1) He  isn't motivated by what dogs are usually motivated by.

2) Unresponsive in general 70% of the time, aloof. Stands or lays down with head down, white of eyes staring up at you, not moving when you try to engage or get him to come to you. He does engage more with other people, but barely regards me. Although he does have periods of excitement, wiggles etc (when finally focused on play, seeing other people & dogs)

3) Guards very odd/weird objects that wouldn't normally be motivating to a dog to guard (vomit, a magnet that falls on the floor etc)

4)Unresponsiveness & guarding has developed in Stew's head as a "game"- what can I get and guard, how long do I need to sit/stay/stand for Jess to give up and not put me in crate, leave me be, not call me etc. 

I don' want to get raked over coals for this but I cried during the session and said all I wanted was a nice dog and I had first pick and why didn't I see that Stew would turn into Cujo and is he not able to be rehabbed and is he really, honestly a weird dog. Am I stuck with this for 10-13 more years where he HATES me and what did I do wrong. That I literally did EVERYTHING right (or I thought) from the beginning). He's not abused or hit, he gets everything he needs etc. 

Then Stew just looked so cute sitting and listening to us that I said "See, you lookso cute, handsome and playful now Stew, why aren';t you like that all the time?" The trainer said "It's good you see the good in Stew". I said 'no offense, but DO YOU?" All I do is stress over him and he doesn't seem to give a s***." Can he really turn around or is this really his behavior" To which he  said "well all dogs are different and Stew is just challenging. Which IMO, was totally not an answer as I'm clearly freaking out about him. 

Then said maybe we need to think of medication and gave me the name of someone, but caveat that the sessions are long, expensive and very clinical. That they aren't as concerned with certain behaviors like he is as the trainer. Then left it, that were not even trying to get him in the crate and will try to manage my apt by just getting it all behind closed doors (my small bathroom) until we figure out a soultion. 

Last night, my mom & I needed to leave and leave him. We left him out of the crate since we didnt want him hurting himself getting out. Shoved tons of stuff in bathroom, barricaded closet. He didnt bark as we left. Came home, the front door had paint scratched off, bedroom door open, closet door tried to open, scratch marks and paint off. 

What the heck can I do before I get meds and/or secure locks on my doors? Thankfully I'm off tomorrow. HELP!

[Nancy and Georgia Brown]

Stew is about the same age as Georgia, so you are right. I have been following this all along since they are about the same age. 

I know Jess is pouring her heart out and doing the best she can, and she really wants this. I just sense they are both miserable but with the best intentions. 

[Lori, Winnie, Bob and Indie]

Very telling indeed-I originally thought he was a puppy. I went back and read posts from 1 1/2 years ago, and many of them have the same tone. More than one behaviorist and/or trainer have been consulted. 

Jess- You asked for help, and all of these wise women are truly trying to help you in the best way possible. Nobody wants you to "feel stuck for 10-13 years." Dog ownership shouldn't be that way. It's never going to be all roses and sunshine, but "stressing over him all the time" is not good for him or you. It's like staying in an unhealthy  relationship with a guy way too long because he's nice and cute when all of your friends are telling you that you are NOT a match made in heaven. I did that in my younger years and ended up divorced. Not what I planned on, but it ended up being the best decision for both of us. And now I am older and wiser and married to a wonderful man. The same can be true for you and Stew.

[Jess & Stewart]

Thanks for the poster who shared the medication experience (so sorry, I read the post a few hrs ago, responded, lost the post and am just responding again quickly before I go to bed). Your dog seems to have had a higher level of anxiety than Stew. I think the crate breaking out was triggered by the maintenance workers as previously he didn't ever try to get out of it and eventually would settle down.

I've never consulted a behaviorist. I've really only had about 3 sessions with 2 trainers (the one who taught puppy class when stew was 7 months old and then again in March when I went back to work after a long stretch). I'm doing sessions with the same trainer in March and am now going to continue instead of stopping like I had previously.

I posted about using medication in conjunction with the training, as I've seen many other discussions on DK about when to use medication and how to use it to mellow a dog WHILE you are training so you can really reinforce the training and see its effects when the dog isn't anxious or worried or has less of a edge. If I'm misinterpreting these discussions, let me know. My trainer explained it in a similar way and it seemed like possibly a good idea, if it could really turn the tides with the separation/being left issues. But is unnerving since it does seem drastic since we haven't really ever done a full training program & that maybe that IS really all Stew and mostly I need to learn to work together and me to read him, etc better.

Like many things in my life that I've stopped & then regretted, (woulda, shoulda, coulda etc) the training is now a big regret since I should have just kept it up after puppy class and the first session. I have no doubt that I have probably didn't do Stew any favors, with regards to these incidents, although the maintenance workers really did bring him back to square one when he was acting very great for the past few months and i thought it would continue to get better.

Stew has really been responding to the training games and tug games this weekend. Even went out to see fireworks, left Stew in my apartment and he was fine when I got home, was just laying on the floor chewing a bone when I got home. He didn't even guard it after I came home. That's progress to me, especially since he didn't seem to have any adverse reactions being left alone for the longest period yet (about 3 hours) in the new apartment.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

Jess, did the trainer suggest "tug games"?  Usually tug games are not recommended because it can set up a situation where you are vying with the dog for control (winning).  Rather than playing tug, my trainer always suggested using "drop it" and teaching the dog that he must release the object when you ask for it.  Maybe your trainer has a different approach, but this seems unusual to me.  Also, leaving a dog with separation anxiety alone during fireworks can cause issues.  I'm glad that it seemed like he was fine when you got home...hopefully he couldn't hear them.  Fireworks can be really stressful for many dogs.  Even though neither of my guys have separation anxiety, I would never be comfortable leaving them home alone during fireworks....the noise frightens my little guy and just knowing he's not alone helps him. 

[Lucy & AnnaBelle's Mom]

I just read that you are using the same trainer you last used who gave this comment:  

Even my trainer said the separation anxiety/boredom/getting into things has him stumped since nothing has seemed to work. 

I personally feel that Stew is just feeding off of your energy.  I would love to see him after 30 days in a home with an experienced dog owner, in a relaxed environment.  Most of the behaviors that you are talking about are typical puppy behaviors and addressed appropriately would not be an issue.  You are stressing out over them and he is then feeding off of your energy.  People are giving you advice about these behaviors and you are turning around and saying they aren't now happening or are justifying them.  You even said at one point his "drop it and leave it" are now spot on ... but then you say he is guarding odd things.   I know you feel like people are judging you and lashing out,  and you don't want that, but this whole situation is a train wreck.   Feeling extremely frustrated by these posts.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Im with you on this Lucy, it's all over the place with the only consistancy is the lack of consistancy. Poor Stew doesn't know what to do and he's probably doing his best to figure it out in his doggie way.  If you know yourself well enough to say you can not be consistant or follow through with anything, then a dog is just not right for you, and not fair to the dog to be put in such a confusing enviriorment.

A two year old dog is still young and very trainable, but Jess, if I have learned one thing about dogs and training them, (from DK especially) is that consistancy in everything is the key in all area's. And once they have learned one behavior it's very difficult to undo. 

It looks like you need to decide if Stew is just too much for you to commit the time, energy,consistancy and money into to get the ideal dog you imagine, or let someone else do it for him.

Also make a decision as to what it is you think he is, is he this awful monster dog that hates you or is he this wonderful, calm, well behaved dog? I'm so confused and I don't know what to expect from your next post.

How about you step back from the computer for awhile and take some time to reflect on what it is you want and can do for Stew and your life with him and let us know when you have decided. This up and down, he's good, he's bad, he did this, but this is why and did that, but that is why is making me dizzy.  Not to sound mean, I'd say the same to one of my own kids about their dogs. I'm very much a "JUST DO IT" kind of person, but that's me. Invest your time in training and changing what you can or in getting him rehomed. Either way, there is tons of information on this site in whatever you decide to do. 

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

Of course as an experienced owner and doodle foster parent you're  likely correct that a month in a different environment could yield positive results. Just one thing, Stew will be two in September so while he obviously displays puppy like behaviors this is beyond puppyhood. I share your extreme frustration. 

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

The people here giving you advice are the best on earth with more experience in being good dog owners than I have ever known or met in my life. I have known them for years and so when they say you should rehome Stew they are not saying this lightly. I have never ever seen them give this advise before, it is not a criticism of you they just want the best for Stew.  I was not a good dog owner myself until much later in life and made some terrible mistakes along the way. There was no internet or DK in those days and you are so lucky to have these wonderful people to help. Jane is the 'go to' person for the most challenging of dogs, I would stake my life on that and Karen has years of rehoming experience amongst her other areas of knowledge.  You will be less stressed after you make the difficult decision and we will all applaud your courage in making it.  Julie said everything beautifully so please take it to heart. Don't backtrack and tell us all is suddenly well, Stew is behaving beautifully and all is calm and then in a week or so have another very stressfull episode. 

[BG and Gavin]

Jess, you have received an awful lot of good advice from the smart and caring people on this site that took a lengthy amount of time out of their days to read and respond to you posts.  I have nothing more to add that they did not say except that I am proud to part of this unbelievably giving community of dog owners.  Get quiet and do some soul searching re: next steps and please, please try not to post in the heat of the moment.  Take some time and reread what you are about to post because when you throw around words like:  "Cujo, hate, sh**, stuck with, get rid of" it is VERY upsetting to all of us.

[Becka]

I want to second this, BG, having read through all of the posts and most of Jess's earlier discussions in which she seems to be at a breaking point.

Jess, everyone here only wants what's best for you and your dog. We can only respond to what you write. None of us is there with you and Stew. We can only take you at your word and try to understand the situation as you describe it. So please be very, very careful about what you write and how you write it. Consider how your posts come across. I am not at all surprised that you received so many suggestions to rehome him after you started asking about medication--that's a very serious step that should be done in consultation with a vet and a behaviorist. You have admitted in several places that you didn't follow through with Stew's training--to me, this indicates that the problem lies with you much more than with your dog. Please take this to heart and understand that I don't say it out of meanness or because I think I know better than you do--I am simply responding to what you yourself have written, just like everyone here.

[Kaitee and Orwell]

Out of curiosity... what is Stew's daily exercise regimen?

[Rebecca, Kandy & Murphy]

Wow -- what a lot of advice/comments/opinions.  I don't know about Jess, but if I were the OP, this post would make me more anxious that I was when I started.  Jess, I think perhaps the best advice I could give you is -- stop posting on DK!  I can tell that you post when you are super-upset about things and then perhaps regret it later.  Since dogs do, of course, pick up on our emotional state, the added anxiety of that can't be helping.  I think the new apartment and the ability to not have Stew crated all day is going to be a great thing.  And working consistently with a trainer sounds good, and the behaviorist can't hurt.  Since they can see what Stew is really like most of the time, take their advice.  Find a friend to vent to -- maybe someone you see all the time at the dog park?  Realize that Stew sounds like a pretty typical 2 year old -- whether we are talking kid or dog!  And if you post here, post nice happy updates that won't elicit anxiety-causing responses :-)