advice for training

[Gina]

Hi all...I am looking for some advice on training my doodle. He is a year old, just turned this past November. We feel like he has been doing well....but still has issues in the house when we get home from work. He wants attention NON-STOP, and it makes it very hard for me an my husband, who have demanding careers, to spend the entire evening catering to him. We try to walk him a lot at night, so as to get the energy expended from the day. He still cannot be trusted, and is kept in his cage throughout the day. He sleeps, I am sure, most of that time. I feel so bad for him, and know that the energy issue is one of the major issues with his behavior at night....but he still needs a lot of work on learning to not jump when someone gets home, he barks WAY too much when he sees neighbors when we are out to do the "business", and really needs to learn to allow me to get within 3 feet of my hisband without breaking it up, and jumping on us to keep us apart...he gets JEALOUS!! :) We have tried the spray bottle, turning our backs to him when he jumps, and all of the methods you can do on your own...what kinds of training should I be looking to, a home trainer that can come a few times? The Petsmart obedience classes? Will he just get better with time? Any advice is SO welcomed! Thank you!

[Gina]

I guess I was trying to explain that these are two separate issues...he jumps all over us when he has not just been let out of the cage, this is just a bad habit. I understand that he is going to be "ready to go" once getting out of the cage...that is just the nature of a dog that has been in the cage all day. I guess its either he stay in the cage all day, or else, potentially tear my house apart. I appreciate the advice on the doggy day care, unfortunately, they do not open until way after we get to work....

[Gina]

oh he is SO SO Smart! he knows sit, shake, lay down, he truly took about an hour to learn those, and knows them like a charm...the big issue is, he doesn't listen, AT ALL?! It is almost as if he has ADD. I truly say that all the time....he acts like he is just oblivious when we ask him to do things sometimes. I often times use the knee, and pusch into him, not to kick him, but just to let him associate the knee with jumping...and it doesn't work! We ignore the HECK out of him, and he keeps on trying to separate us, espically when we are in the kitchen. If I try to kiss him goodbye, or hello (my husband, haha), the dog RUNS over, and tries to plow into us, not to be mean, but to say, ME TOO MOM! His excitement and energy levels are so high, its astounding.

I appreciate that you agree that sometimes, you just have to cage your dog, and truly, I hope he grows out of it sooner rather than later, because I would love to let him roam while we are at work. I do my best to give him the exercise that I can....but I think we are looking to get a fence installed in the backyard in the spring, so he can run, I just pray he doesn't use it as an outlet to bark, else our effort, and money is wasted. I think the yard fencing will help...he can run to hi hearts content all afternoon.

He truly isn't a bad dog....this dog never chews on anything in the house, nor does he chew the furniture, legs of the tables, etc. He just has a few habits that have been BEARS for us to break.....and all this advice has been helpful. We are also looking into two day a week doggy daycare, even though we both start work before 7 am...I am going to see if I can work something out to get him there either a little early, or maybe try my best to work later hours two days a week. Anything to give him more of an outlet, rather than just me, to expend energy on.

Does anyone think that having two dogs versus one is a good answer? We have contemplated this to help give him some company during the day, and someone for him to play with more at night, rather than us non-stop.

[Adina P]

You mentioned he already knows HOW TO execute commands such as sit, lay down, etc..so he's learned the "HOW TO" which is great. But that's part 1 of training: TEACHING.

Part 2 of is getting a reliable response to those commands anytime/anywhere. So you've started the process, but may need the help of a professional to finish the job.

It took me a while to learn this myself. I thought having a smart dog would make training easy because they'd learn how to do things fast. And that part is true. But I learned that training is not just teaching...but the continued practice and addition of distance, distraction and duration. That practice in different environments where the dog is gradually taught to handle various situations WHILE obeying and trusting that obedience will yield good things for him AND learning that disobedience will lead to undesirable consequences...THAT is the meat of training. These dogs are SMART---they will learn to understand HOW TO very easily...but because they are smart they need part 2 of training more than the average dog. That's where a pro can help you best.

[Adina P]

I'm not 'against' bark collars (and a few people here use e-collars for corrections, but I'm sure you will find strong opinions on both sides) though I am slightly afraid of them... ;-)

We also use the knee to the chest method...works great for us and we are not jumped on...but others are hesitant so Thule will jump on others.

[Adina P]

I don't think there's anything wrong with your dog and I also think that your expectations are good. I think that you should expect dogs to not jump all over you, however, it won't happen without intense training. My suggestion is to research the trainers in your area. Talk to them on the phone, and if they have available classes sit in on a few classes--preferably graduation classes. You want to see their methods, how they deal with people, and if their graduates are actually successful and have well trained dogs. Methods are as important as outcomes--outcomes are as important as methods. The sweetest nicest trainer who doesn't get the job done by leading his/her class to success isn't as attractive to me as someone who might be a little more eccentric but gets the job done. Once you have spoken with a few trainers and possibly visited a few classes you'll have an idea of what your options are and what you feel best about. Sign up for class or a home trainer. They each have different advantages.

There are two ways to approach training: fixing problems and aiming for overall solid obedience (there are probably other ways but these are the ones that I have noticed are most common). My preference and what I believe is most effective overall and for the long-term is aiming for overall solid obedience. In the process of training for solid obedience there are side benefits beyond the actual dog who will do what you tell it to do. But the side benefits are as important and useful:

1) a solid bond between trainer and dog
2) increased trust between trainer and dog
3) better communication between trainer and dog
4) WAY more respect toward you from the dog

This happens through the consistency and clear boundaries that training will require of you. Your dog will learn that there are consequences to both his good and bad actions--he will learn to trust those consequences, your consistency, and your leadership. He will learn that when you ask things of him you will follow through on your end--and will trust you and respect you. Life is much easier for a dog when things are black and white. Plus his good behavior will earn him SO much freedom, tons of praise and pats and smiles, and the chance to accompany you everywhere you want him to!

These side benefits quite often FIX all the little annoying behaviors like jumping, and getting between you and your husband, etc.

For these reasons I highly recommend training with a professional. My preference and something I strongly believe in is finding a "Balanced Trainer."

"Balanced trainer" does not refer to a specific method but it refers to a philosophy that does not rule out corrections. So it includes positive rewards and when necessary unpleasant consequences depending on the dogs behavior. This is also why I recommend attending the classes as a bystander first.
While I firmly believe that corrections are an acceptable part of training, you want to choose a trainer that is fair so that the dog has a chance to learn what is desired of it and practice before it's expected to know what to do and be accountable for corrections.

This is ONLY my opinion. It certainly worked for my dog was one of the most horrible nippers I can imagine--and not just as a young puppy, but all the way until he was about a year old!! If I had focused solely on the nipping--I would've probably been utterly and completely frustrated and ready to rehome my dog--it was that bad! But instead, I focused on an overall obedience training program that led to those four side benefits I have listed above and ended up with a fabulous dog who brings people joy as a therapy dog.

The program that I used I have written a review about right here: http://doodlekisses.com/forum2/topics/2065244:Topic:21036
It's not for everybody, but if you commit to the time and follow it precisely it will do fabulous things for the training of your dog! It's also super inexpensive compared to trainers (but you have to have a VHS player).

If training on your own is not something you feel comfortable doing, then look in these two web sites to find lists of trainers near you:
http://www.dogpro.org/ -- this listing features trainers who use both rewards and unpleasant consequences
http://apdt.com/ -- this listing features primarily trainers who believe in an all positive approach (praise/treats/reward and no applied unpleasant consequences--some are very good!)

In the meantime if you are able to do this...I second that doggie daycare suggestion just to tire your doggy out.

Adina

[ClarkP]

I've raised a high energy dog, Cass. She's a Border Collie and they are the definition of high energy. I've never seen a doodle that came close to what the average Border Collie has for energy (although I'm sure they are out there).

But I was lucky to have an epiphany: Early on, I played Frisbee with her in the park for quite a long time. Cass had a great time! But that wasn't the epiphany. THAT happened when we were relaxing in the park after the Frisbee session. Some kids came to pet her and she acted like a trained therapy dog! She was calm, no jumping, no hyper behaviour... NOTHING bad. It was amazing. Then some old ladies walked by and she just watched them calmly while relaxing on the grass. Wow! Normally she would have been up and jumping on them and just being "happy to see them"... but misbehaving badly.

So that was my epiphany. Cass needed daily exercise THAT TIRED HER OUT! Walks were not enough. She needed exercise that exhausted her extra energy. Once she got this, her behavior was completely different. She was a changed dog in a very positive way.

So yes, obedience classes and training are a must. But give your Doodle some serious daily exercise. (It took at least of half hour of strenuous exercise for Cass, often twice daily when she was young.) Run with him. Play fetch with him in a big area where he really can run. If running with other dogs at the dog park exhausts him, take him there. Get one of those cool bike leashes that tether him out to the side of your bicycle and ride with him. You could even find a dog "jogger" during the day. Anything, just wear this puppy out daily!

Just understand that for a high energy dog, walks are not enough. If you don't exhaust his extra energy in an acceptable way, he will find ways to burn off that energy that are bad behavior and NOT acceptable.

[Janie]

I think Clark is right on in his advice!

[LeAnn, Lucy & Rusty!!]

That's such good advice.. Lucy was really rowdy in the evenings and I couldn't study... so I started taking her to the dog park for half an hour before I planned on a study session... it wore her out and put me in a good mood to study... I just love a happy dog...

[Leslie, Dexter & Kirby]

Just a few comments for you :)

We are in a similar situation as you are - both working full time. Our doodles are home alone ~9-9.5 hrs a day.

1) The energy level definitely improves with age. Dex and Kirby are 2.5 now and will pass out normally by 8 pm (we normally get home around 5 pm).
2) Having 2 dogs helps a lot! We got Kirby when he and Dex were 12 months old. We are now at a point where we can leave them both loose in the house all day. I know they just sleep, but also know they often are right next to each other on the couch (we have set up a webcam) - I think the companionship has been great for them. At night we'll walk them or let them play outside and then they'll play/wrestle inside a bit. They burn off their energy so quickly!! I would make a point to take your dog for a really long walk after work. Dex and Kirby are totally done if I take them on even just a 2 mile walk.
3) I'd definitely take a training class. We did 2 Petsmart classes (and are starting a 3rd this Sunday). It all depends on the trainer there, but the one we use is great.
4) 12 months old is still adolescence. I'd work on the jealousy behavior (don't give him attention when he's acting like this, give him a timeout, etc).

Ok enough rambling. I understand your point about daycare - it's not a realistic option for us between the distance, their/our hours and honestly the cost.

[2fth9nt3tnwuk]

try leaving on music during the day too.

[Renee]

Training classes help us out alot, Taffy is only 5months old and like Adina I too have a dog that has been nipping since we got her and I am glad to hear has stopped. Taffy knows all the commands but we have to work every day on them to get a reliable outcome. What I love about the classes is that when I am frustrated and feel like this dog is never going to learn to do this, I go to class and she is the best dog ever and I get a new found confidence I didn't have. The classes are really for the owners more than the dogs. Good Luck.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

I agree with Clark that playing fetch or some other high energy game would probably help. In addition a really good obedience school and then walking him obediently ( heel, sit, down, stay,) will use a LOT of mental and physical energy in 15 minutes. Just a walk is fun and helps, but if you start every walk with an obedient walk at the heel you use up a lot more energy and you help get an obedient dog. My 15 month old doodle has twice the energy of his full brother who is only 8 months old. Its just the dog. Both dogs are leash trained and heel etc. That said my older high energy dog greets me with enormous enthusiasm if I return after being outside to water the plants on the front porch for two minutes. He is crazy excitable when people come in the house and his continuing training IS helping. It's slow going though. I have had a trainer come to the house and that has helped me too. I have watched Caesar Milan and the English dog trainer and learned little bits there too. I am not a professional dog trainer, my dogs are pets, I am home a lot and my older dog sounds pretty much like yours. Do go to obedience classes. Check out the trainer as well as you checked out the breeder. There are lots of "trainers" out there who probably know less than you do. Then do go for an "obedience walk' and a fun walk, even if you are tired. You will be less tired once you get used to it. Give up the guilt. Your jobs pay the dog's vet bills, and buy his food. Do incorporate your dog in your fun time. Go to dog parks, dog walks, and teach him to search for toys in the house. It's an easygame to teach. Just hide a treat with his ball or whatever and help him find it the first few times. Once he is good at it it takes a lot of thinking and energy to find the ball, bone, duck, and whatever you have hidden before you leave and you will probably be able to get your coat off and go to the bathroom before he finds them all and it may calm him done a little. I always ask my older dog to find his bone ( there are 3 of tem in different colors) when he is just going nutsy with barking, greeting, whatever. Most of all Enjoy his puppyhood, it is gone all too soon.