Getting 8 month old puppy to listen to me

[dal]

Hi Everyone,

We have come a long way with our Cooper and he is doing great.  He knows all his basic commands (sit, down, stay, wait, leave it, drop it, come) but he does not always want to listen to me and I'm just wondering what to do in certain situations.  He is 8 months old so I know this is a tough age but I just want to make sure I don't reinforce the not listening.

1) when he's outside and I want him to come in, I will stand at the back door and tell him to come.  If he wants to stay outside he refuses to come.  If the kids have him on a leash outside to take him potty, he will sometimes just lay down on the grass and refuse to budge.  I have resorted to yelling "come turkey" or "come cheese" so he knows it's a high reward treat if he comes but that isn't even always working right now.  The only thing that seems to consistently work is to get the bag of cheese out and show it to him but that seems sort of ridiculous at this point and I don't want to reinforce his not listening.  What should i do in these situations?

2) he is allowed on our couch but lately he has taken to digging in between the cushions.  We tell him no and off but that usually does not work and we have to take him by the collar and lead him off.  I will usually put him in the crate so he can simmer down for a few minutes.  Any suggestions on this issue?

3) before we leave the house for a walk, he has to sit and wait at each door.  he will always do this for a treat if he knows the treat in his my hand but will not always do it on just the verbal command or the hand motion for sit.  Is it fine for me to still have the treat in my hand at this age?

4) he never jumps on us (well very very rarely) which took a lot of training especially with my 6 year old son so we are thrilled with this.  However, he gets super excited when new people come to the house and he barks like crazy if I have him on a leash to prevent the jumping.  The other day my daughter had a friend over and the only that worked was putting him in the easy walk harness instead of regular leash and letting him be around her.  It took all of two minutes to work this out but that was because the girl was skiddish and wanted nothing to do with him.  If people engage him in any way, he takes a long time to settle.  He jumps, when the person tells him to sit he will sometimes but as soon as the person goes to pet him as a reward, he goes crazy again.  Any tips?

Thank you all so much for any feedback!  Oh and I am posting in the puppy madness group because he is only 8 months but should I post in training group instead?  I wasn't sure.

[Missy]

congrats on your puppy!! I am not an expert, so hopefully others will weigh in here, but what I have learned from this group is what I'll share.

I learned that to not use the COME command unless you know they know it. As it does set you up for the 'not listening' as you are experiencing.  The sit, stay, lay are easy commands for dogs I was told.  And so I had to work harder for the COME command.  practice in a calm environment, and then work up to the distracted environment.  I have a real nosy dog, and it took almost a year before I felt he knew it. But I practiced almost EVERY day for months. 

another thing I did that was helpful to me, was to sit with my pup on the front porch, and let him look around, and when he would look at me, I would quickly give him a treat. (small small small treat) of course they get excited and think the hands have treats, but put him back into a sit command and just watch the world go by, but each time he looks without being told to look, he gets a treat.  As we progressed in this, I would walk around the house, and if the dog would follow or try to come find me, he would get rewarded. This helps reinforce the dog looking for you or to you for directions. I then added saying his name.  and moving away from him or out of sight, and rewarded when he comes to me.

when we were outside and I was ready to come in, it was 'let's go' and he should be following me, or it was hooked up to the leash with command "come" and he had to follow as he was on leash.

What to do until you have the come command? hook the dog up to the leash and bring him in.  My dog gets stubborn sometimes, but be strong because as like kids, if they win one battle, more is to come! lol

2: is he sniffing out a crumb or treat between the cushions? we have blankets on our couch where the dog lays. I am not sure on this one, other than he wants something under the cushion.

3; keep practicing. work your way to verbal praise.  try every other time with treat, that way the dog does not know when he is going to get a treat or not. and no outside until he sits! 

4: we are at 2 years and still working on the no jumping on people.  We find it better when I leash him, stand on leash when greeting people so they can't be jumped on.  And then I keep him on leash until he calms down, sometimes 30 minutes.  these pups love people.  I read that they want to access people's faces as they were licked by their mothers as a sign of love, so I try to bend over and say hello, holding down the dog so he can get access to my face.  some of our guests do the same, some are not willing.  we are still a work in progress!!

keep up the training....these are very smart dogs.

[dal]

Thank you so much for this reply!  I love the idea of treating when the dog looks to you or follows you.

No crumbs in the couch - we, too, have blankets on the couch.  I think he digs when he has pent up puppy energy or when he's overtired.  We have noticed he is getting tired earlier in the evenings so into the crate he goes and he's good for the night.  It's earlier in the day that is difficult because he is relentless with the digging.

Yes, Cooper wants so bad to get to peoples' faces.  When he's good and greets by sitting, as soon as people give him attention he looks up at them and I know what's coming - he tries to jump up to give a good lick.

Thanks again for the reply!

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Hi Dal! Sounds like you've a great start with him and we are not so far ahead of you but I've a few ideas. Firstly, yes, post in the training group for sure!
For your #1 I would "set it up for success", as Doggy Dan says. I have this prob too, so I try to never yell the recall cue word unless I'm SURE he will come. Every time you say it and he ignores you, you've taught him to ignore you (ugh). My recall cue word is "here," so if I think he is too distracted or stubborn to recall, I will leash him in, or make excited noises sounding like a fool to elicit his cooperation (lol but it works), or use "let's go," etc. instead of "here." Sometimes to reinforce my "here" I will say it repeatedly while he is already on his way to me and then treat. Recall really needs good, consistent training throughout - never ends, I believe.
#3 start treating intermittently then quickly not at all. He can do this without a treat. Don't open the door until he sits. If he gets up when you open the door, close it. Continue until he knows you're not opening that door until he waits. Stand tall, calm, and be strong in your expectations of him and conviction that he can/will do it. Wait is a great skill to have for safety! If you have a good wait then they don't bolt at an open house or car door. If I say wait on the walk with Rip, he slows, stops and looks at me...the carryover is lovely!
#4 is tough. You need guests cooperation in completely ignoring the dog til he settles but if not you may have to remove him from the fun. Or, Doggy Dan has this "calm freeze" - that works well, check it out.
Hope that helps somewhat, just my two cents. Sounds like a great pup, though! Best,

[dal]

Thank you for the reply!  Great advice and I will put into practice tomorrow!  I think you are right and I need to be strong in my expectations of him.  At 9 months old now, I know he is capable of waiting etc... 

I need a place to remove him from the fun.  Do you think a crate in my bedroom would work?  He is normally not allowed in my bedroom but I have a second crate I can put in there for this purpose.  He is crated when we are not home and when he goes to bed so I know he likes and does well in a crate.  I'm just not sure how he will do crated when he knows there is activity going on in another room... And also not sure how he will handle being crated in a different place than usual.  But it would be great to have this as an option so I think I'm going to give it a try.

[Gracie, Jade, & Barkley]

We are currently working with Gracie on her recall. What were were given was a regular recall technique and an emergency recall technique (not to be used everyday, but to be practiced at least 3 times a week with a really high value food - something they don't get at all during other training or treats.)
For the regular recall we just use a high pitched pup pup pup and when she comes to us, gently grab her collar and give her a small handful of treats.
It has worked very well for us. The thing to remember is to practice this during their play time so that they learn they aren't always going inside and ending their fun as soon as you call them.
As far as giving them treats to get them to do what you want, I was told that you are making them work for food. There's no problem with that. I have just started having Gracie sit before we go out for a walk, it's really hard for her. But, the sit is the work she has to do before I open the door. So, I don't treat her then, the treat is going out the door.
I think the key is to keep practicing and keep training. I don't think there is a magical age number as to when to stop training. They are always in training mode.

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Great tips! I'll have to remember to recall other times than going inside - great point!!

[dal]

Thank you, great advice!  So what is the emergency recall technique?  Also, I like practicing the regular recall during playtime.  Going to start that!  Thanks again!

[Gracie, Jade, & Barkley]

Emergency recall is picking a word that is rarely heard by the dog and a high value treat. Practice it but use it in an emergency like chasing an animal or even seeing and chasing after a person.

My word is pronto and we use liverwurst. The treat is supposed to be something they rarely get (this is what my trainer told me). We started out practicing in the home and then in the yard. The only time Gracie gets liverwurst is during this recall. It really works. I hadn't been practicing like I should and got it out the other day while she was playing in the yard with my husband. I yelled the recall word and she immediately turned and ran to me.

You want to make sure you have a good amount of it.

My trainer said that you want to be more enticing than the deer or rabbit that they might chase.

Liverwurst does not stay fresh in the fridge, so what I do is slice it up and then freeze it. You can also make balls with it then freeze it. So, when I practice, I just grab a slice and take it outside. By the time I use it it is getting soft so she gobbles it right up.
I did a search for emergency recall to come up with a word. Lol so, there is a lot of info regarding what it is and how to do it.

[SoSa]

Our puppy is 8 months next week and we are going through the same exact thing.

He'll obey every command, so long as there are treats involved. We know he knows what to do, but now he is playing us for that "positive reward". He grabs things and will not drop it unless he gets a treat. Sure, I can win the tug of war, but at the end of the battle, whatever he's grabbed is ruined from the pulling. Lately, when he grabs something, we'll ignore him instead of entertaining him with chasing and the tug of war. He ends up dropping it, but it full of doggy saliva, GROSS!

We had him in group obedience training. I felt it was kind of ridiculous because it involved a constantly flurry of treats to get him to obey plus a clicker. I found it really difficult to hold a bag of hotdogs, control a dog and click all pretty much at the same time. Plus I found that Ace was really distracted with all of the different people and dogs. We had to comstantly throw treats and work him to keep him occupied. We just had a private trainer come give a consultation. He uses an e-collar that does not shock but pulses, for lack of a better word. He's gotten great reviews, but there is no way I'm spending over $1000 for private training.

I guess it'll be a work in progress. If there is one thing I really wish we could correct is the jumping and extreme excitability when guests come over. I hate having guests come over. It's just stressful.

[Gracie, Jade, & Barkley]

Sosa,

As for the drop it, you really have to work on it with toys and such before you can expect him just to drop any thing. Also, using a strong uh-uh seems to work with Gracie. One trick I saw on the Zac videos was to not tug back and as soon as they release say drop it and throw it. It seems to work for learning the drop it. Also working on leave it would be beneficial first because then you can curb the behavior before it starts.

Also treat training is not all that bad. You are making the dog work for food. Work is the key word. The food in a baggie while holding onto the dog is hard. They make fanny packs. Very fashionable - I know! But, would you rather have a dog that will work for food or one that is "misbehaving" according to human standards?
I use the fanny pack with a Baggie inside and it keeps it fairly clean. I keep hand wipes (the travel size in the fanny pack too as it has two pockets.) The tricks I learned at training have become very beneficial in real world situations. I don't just mean using the clicker either, but my trainer would give us suggestions of how to handle certain situations. So what if I have to bribe Gracie with treats to get her to avoid jumping on guests. It isn't all the time - but once I did just that. Just kept continually handing her treats. One it was my son's grad party and two she had already been cooped up all day. These guests arrived late and I needed to get Gracie out. She did really well considering her age and that she had been crated for a considerably long time.

Yes, puppies are going to be distracted by other dogs and other puppies. When I took Gracie to training, I worked every day at home for least two sessions of 15 min repeating what we had learned. When we went to training, she would be distracted for at least the first 15 min and depending what else was going on (one night there were dogs barking from the kennel - the training occurred at a boarding facility). However, you've got to learn to work through the distractions.

One thing that worked for us was to have a kong filled with pb or other treats so that when I needed to listen and she needed to be distracted in a good way, I would hand her the kong until it was time to get her back on track. Also, I didn't throw the treats to her, but lured her to face me. The treats stayed in my hand until she faced me. We used a leather leash that has different rings on it so that you can adjust the size. We kept her on the shortest length during training. I believe it was 3'-4'.

Yes, it's juggling but it's training them and they are working for food. There are other ways to train. But, my dog is very food motivated so this was the easiest. We need to practice more now that training is over because yeah she isn't just motivated by me telling her what to do. However, you keep at it and then you back off the treats eventually.

Jumping is still a work in progress. My trainer thought there might not be hope in that. :D However, I use the leash trick when I know company is coming over or when I go to my in-laws house with her. Just step on the leash and she can't jump. Then, if and when she settles she can be petted. If she can't settle down at home, she goes to her crate. It's your house, your rules. It shouldn't be stressful.
Gracie is going on 9 months. So, yeah she can be a handful but she is very intelligent and so I have to think ahead of what she may or may not do.
She also has to be trained in different environments and with guests coming otherwise what she does when we are alone in the comfort of our home - I can't expect she will behave in different environments/settings if she's never had a chance to experience them.

[SoSa]

Thanks for the advice. I know it just boils down to patience and consistency. My in-laws are coming over this weekend and I'm dreading it because my mother-in law gets all jumpy and screamy around dogs. She makes the situation with Ace all the more stressful. I try to tell her to calm down because her acting crazy makes him more excited. I feel like I have to be a psychologist and a dog trainer st the same time when these two are aroundceach other.

Anyway, I do use a fanny pack on walks. It helps. I have ditched the clicker though. Ace kniws what the goid behaviors are already. I do not feel I need to mark the behavior with a click. He definitely knows right from wrong. Always doing right...

[Jessica, Loki and Moose]

Something I use is one of those chalk pouches for rock climbing, I think I got one online from REI but they seal really well and have a great liner on the inside. I put that on the belt that their leashes clip on to and it's worked well for us :) just extra food for thought. It's funny because seeing that you guys use fanny packs I'm now kicking myself because "how could I have not thought of that!". I have lots of moments like that on DK learning from others :)