DNA TEST F1B maybe not an F1B?

[Annie]

HI~

I am considering getting a DNA test for my goldendoodle and was wondering if anyone had any experience with them.  I am skeptical that the breeder was honest with me about Fiona's parents.  She is supposedly an F1B but has no facial furnishings like both her parents and the 75% poodle really isn't there.  She sheds a lot also.  We paid a lot of money for her and I want to be sure we got what we paid for.  She's a sweet girl and no matter what she is ours, but I want to know for sure and hold the breeder accountable.  I am disappointed with her response to me and can now see it's a business transaction for her and that is it.  She does not care about her dogs one bit.  Thank you for any input!!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

From what I've heard, the DNA tests can be unreliable. I'm not saying not to do it, but it may not give you much leverage in dealing with the breeder. 

But beyond that, genetics work in mysterious ways, and your pup would not be the only F1B here without furnishings. There's currently a discussion about this here: http://www.doodlekisses.com/forum/topics/how-the-same-breed-looks-s...

You may find this graphic interesting. As it says, "If a dog's DNA reveals he is 12.5% Golden Retriever, which 12.5% is it? His hips? How he digests food? We can't be sure." http://www.animalfarmfoundation.org/pages/Multimedia-Infographics

The issue for me would be that an experienced goldendoodle breeder knows which puppies in a litter have furnishings or not, and should be informing her buyers. 

[Adina P]

^Yup. The DNA test can't tell you of your pup is an F1b for sure. There are F1b's and higher generation dogs with no furnishings. It happens.

[Ginny Nightingale]

Can you explain this Adina? I am not sure the genetics work out--but I could be wrong...the IC (incorrect coat that causes an "open face") gene is in labs, but I don't THINK poodles have it--so wouldn't an F1B have a 50% chance of having one IC gene from the labradoodle parent? And one gene means facial furnishings, no?

[Barbie]

My vet told me that a blood test is more accurate, but the cost was way too high for me. I used Wisdom Panel (a mouth swab test) and, though not 100% reliable, I am very satisfied with the results. They went back 3 generations on both the mom’s (full-bred Standard Poodle) and dad’s (full-bred Shar-Pei) sides. Zeus definitely has the Shar-Pei features.

[Ginny Nightingale]

I just raised a litter where the parents were both labradoodles--although 7 out of 9 were doodle-y and 1 was poodle-y, there was one you would swear was a golden retriever! HA!! And he will shed--so we found a family who did not worry about shedding, wanted a "wash and wear" coat (they live by the beach) and we gave them a discount--his adult coat may not shed much at all since he did not shed much as a pup, but I think breeders should be 100% honest about it....and let the cards fall where they may....I am sorry you did not have the same experience. 

The weird thing is that  it is impossible to have a face with no furnishings if one parent is a poodle--since the poodle does not carry that gene, the pup could only be a carrier. Sometimes it takes a while for furnishings to show up--I know our pup below (and mentioned above) will have plenty in a few months, for example. I looked at your page and I think your pup could end up with a much fuller coat in time.

[Annie]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I agree that the breeder should have been up front with us. I spoke with her about the open face, lack of the upside down "v" and chrysanthemum and she acted clueless to what I was saying. She then goes on to tell me she has been a breeder for 18+years. It's just frustrating because I thought I did enough research but have learned so much more than I knew before.

Ginny- are you sure that the puppy should have furnishings if one parent is a poodle? That's interesting and I have heard that before.

I am going to order a DNA test just to see what happens.

[Annie]

Here is another picture of fiona close up. I feel like she will never shag out with the short hair around her muzzle. I don't see any fluff here.

[Natalie]

What a beauty!!!

[Annie]

Such a cute dog!

[Erin]

Hi Ginny. So the pup you think is retriever-like will eventually doodle out? I'm curious if there are sets of genes for curly and not curly coat... What results in the wavy coat?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There is a separate gene for curl. One for furnishings, one for length, one for curl. Some breeds have one or two of them, some breeds have none of them, some breeds like Poodles have all three. 

https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/DogCoatLengthCurlandFurnishing...

[Erin]

So, forgive me for responding before reading the article, but would a wavy (not curly or straight) have the dominant curly gene just express it differently (not very curly)?