Puppy with chronic diarrhea and blood in stool...

[Cynthia Corsetti]

Hello, I am a new member of this group, as well as a new dog owner. I have a 5 month old labradoodle. She has had off and on diarrhea since about the second month I've owned her. First, full disclosure, I did not know a lot and I didn't go to a breeder, I just saw her picture on line and fell in love. She came from an amish family in Ohio. After the fact I realized I was supposed to know more about a breeder. :(

Anyway, I would take her to a vet they would have me change her food and put her on an antibiotic. I did this three times then tried a holistic vet. She put her on a prescription canned food and is testing for allergies and the diarrhea seemed to be getting better for the last week or so, but last night she ended up awake in the night again and now she also has blood in her stool.

I think this is more than a food issue. I called the holistic vet who said she can see her Friday, but I'm really worried. Has this happened to anyone else? Thanks....

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's happened to lots and lots of people. In fact, it's probably the most common topic discussed in our Food Group and Health Group. We have a lot of info in both groups about this issue.

With all due respect to your holistic vet, there is no accurate or reliable test for food allergies, and the chance of a 5 mo old puppy having a food allergy is extremely slim to impossible, lol. I'm also very surprised that a "holistic" vet would recommend an Rx food, which contains absolutely no therapeutic or medicinal ingredients and does contain some of the cheapest and worst ingredients imaginable. In fact, there's currently a class action suit against the Rx food manufacturers for fraudulent labeling. 

You should also know that any time a dog is on antibiotics, particularly metronidazole (flagyl), you must give a good probiotic to replace the beneficial gut bacteria which is necessary for proper digestion and stool formation. 

Has she had a fecal test? Giardia is extremely common in doodle puppies, and can be very hard to get rid of. It also doesn;t show up in every fecal sample. The best treatment for giardia is Panacur. You must also disinfect anything the poop may have touched to prevent reinfection. 

I personally would forget about food allergies. I'd order a good probiotic (Proviable DC is a great one you can buy online) and I'd have a fecal done to check for parasites or bacteria. If positive for giardia, ask for Panacur.

I'd put her on a homemade bland diet of 50% white meat chicken diced very small and 50% mashed sweet potatoes. You will need to feed twice as much of this as you typically feed kibble, as it contains only half the calories. Give her a couple of tablespoons of plain unflavored non fat yogurt 2-3x a day until you get the probiotics. The probiotics must not be given within 2 hours of any meds, and longer is better. Once things improve, you can gradually switch her back to a commercial food. Please check the Food Group for recommendations.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's some reliable information about food allergies in dogs: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/thefoodgroup/forum/topics/facts-a...

[Ginny Nightingale]

I agree with Karen 100%--of course, she is the doodle guru around here, so who wouldn't? But I was going to say Giardia also--especially since she came fro the Amish and they practically run puppy mills.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

No "practically" about it, lol. The PA and OH Amish puppy mills are well documented. :( 

[Cynthia Corsetti]

I realized that after the fact. I wasn't planning on getting a dog, I just saw this particular dog online when I was looking for labradoodle pictures. We had occasionally said if we get a dog that might be what we get. But, I wasn't necessarily doing research or due diligence. In fact, it wasn't until after I got her that people started telling me about puppy mills...I had NO IDEA it even existed.

So...I told the vet i wasn't waiting until Friday. She saw her today and took a fecal sample to send for a panel that is supposed to check for really hard to find parasites and bacteria. I won't get the results back until Friday when I go back, but she did put her on the Metronidazole and a probiotic. However, I didn't see the tip about waiting  2 hours of any meds so...I gave it to her with her food. Along with a heart worm powder that she gave me and some "clay" stuff..

I want to take her off the rx food. I mentioned it to the vet, I said i didn't like the bi-products listed in the ingredients. She said there are "clean" bi-products. I didn't want to argue so I thought I would just leave her on it until I go back on Friday and then I will ask about making her food until her tummy gets better. Either way, as soon as I get some diagnosis (it's been $2000 so far) from this poop screen I will likely find yet another vet. 

Thank you so much for all of your information. I seriously wish the first vet would have just done the screen and perhaps we could have saved all of us aggravation...

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I wish you had asked the vet for Panacur as I mentioned above. It is more effective and has fewer side effects. 

I'm confused as to why she would need a heart worm medication for this? 

There's no such thing as "clean by-products. I think finding a new vet is a very good idea.

And you don't need to argue, but you do need to be an advocate for your pup. "I'm not comfortable with that" is a very useful phrase. 

I would not ask the vet anything about food on Friday. There is no nutrition curriculum in vet school, and they make a nice profit on the Rx food. There's no reason not to start her on the homemade diet now. 

The probiotic she gave you was probably Fortiflora. Not a good choice. Order the Proviable. 

And $2000 so far is ridiculous. I imagine a good portion of that went for useless blood tests for food allergies. 

Definitely find a new vet. 

[Cynthia Corsetti]

Well, a lot of the money went to acupuncture, chiropractic, and muscle testing for allergies. She told me the puppy was having a reaction to her shots and she would not give her the third round that she was due for. I believe I am being ripped off in a big way. 

As far as the food, I agree with you on that too, can you tell me how to cook the chicken? Boil it? simmer it with broth? and can i buy organic canned sweet potato?

I am going to do that tomorrow. As far as the type of script, I never saw the vet today. I had insisted on bringing her in because they wanted to wait until Friday. So the techs took her back, took a stool sample and then brought out the worm medication as well as the pills. And, my husband is an MD, he said that since she was on antibiotics twice and it came right back she probably wasn't on long enough. So, now I guess I have to go back Friday to even get more of the pills.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yes, you're being ripped off in a HUGE way. Huge. Obscene, actually. 

Chiropractic and acupuncture for non-existent allergies? Muscle testing for allergies? Because a puppy has diarrhea?  I'm surprised she didn't try to sell you snake oil. 

Any vet can run a fecal float test in house in 10-15 minutes. Another rip-off. And meanwhile, your poor pup still hasn't been diagnosed and isn;t getting effective treatment

I would not set foot in this woman's office again. Nothing she has done or said is trustworthy or even competent. The puppy needs a fecal float test and Panacur. And a decent probiotic. For sure, do not get more metronidazole. 
Remove all of the fat from the chicken breasts and boil them in plain old water. NO BROTH...there is no commercial broth sold that doesn;t contain onions, and onions are

toxic to dogs. 

There's no reason to buy canned sweet potatoes; you can bake sweet potaotes in your microwave, they peel easily once they are cool, and you can mash them with a fork. Not even any pots to wash. However, if you want to use canned, make sure they have no salt or anything else added. 

[Cynthia Corsetti]

Okay, I am cooking chicken as we speak. As for the antibiotic. She has already taken her first dose. should I call tomorrow and request the other? I'm not sure what to do. I wish I had reached out here sooner. 

I swear I'm not a bad puppy owner....I love her, I am just SO NEW at this. :)

[Cynthia Corsetti]

Also, what about goats milk? it was another thing suggested by both the pet store and the vet?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

In a word...NO. Useless and will probably cause the diarrhea to become worse. 
I would call tomorrow and ask for Panacur instead of the metronidazole. If you are questioned about why, the answer is "Current veterinary research shows that Panacur is more effective and has fewer side effects", and stand your ground. 

[Cynthia Corsetti]

Karen, as I stated yesterday I never spoke to the vet herself, the techs brought me a sript bottle for antibiotic which was metronidazole and five pouches of "de-wormer" 

After I read your advice last night I logged onto my computer and downloaded my receipt from the vet to see exactly what she gave me and the pouches are Panacur. So, Pooch is on both right now.

I made the chicken/sweet potato mix last night and fed it to her for dinner and breakfast. I have the pro-biotic. 

Her scripts are for 7 days. I'm hoping that whatever the panel ends up showing this round of meds will clear it up. I am on the search for a new vet today.

I want to thank you and everyone else who offered advice and encouragement. I am so grateful to have found this group. Your kindness is very much appreciated.