Morning throw ups

[Rebecca bratter]

Does anyone else's doodle have an issue with morning vomit?  I will post in the food group also as I wonder if it's tied to diet.  This is something new that started in the last year, I know it's due to acid build up in Madiba's tummy and we try to give her a few pumpkin snacks early in the morning but she does about 13 hours between dinner and breakfast.  If we don't catch her early, she will vomit bile.  We switched her to a raw diet and added slippery elm bark and a digestive enzyme supplement and for a month, she was not throwing up in the morning but it has started again if we don't get something in her belly after about 8 hours.  I can't figure out how to control the acid build up in her tummy/digestive system.  I also wonder if there is any connection to the PROIN she takes for her leaky spinchter, she has been taking this most of her life, she leaks pee at night if we dont give this to her.  This started almost from when she was 3 months old and prior to her spay.  I had her on some alternate natural supplements but when we weaned her off the proin completely, she started leaking again.  We are working with a dog nutritionist and are now ordering a bio identical hormone supplement for her.  This makes me nervous, but I am learning that the Proin is really bad.  Any insights?  

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's very common, and you are correct that it's due to her having an empty stomach for too many hours between dinner and breakfast. We've had many discussions in TFG about this. The solution is not to feed her something early in the morning, but rather to give her a snack before bed. Most people give a few biscuits or a small portion reserved from the dinner meal. With a raw diet, I don;t know how you could do that, but I'm sure there's something she could have. This has worked very well for those whose dogs have this issue. 

It's my understanding that most dogs who were previously on Proin for bladder leakage are being switched to a hormonal drug by their vets. I would strongly urge you to talk to a vet about this rather than a "dog nutritionist". There is no accredited program for canine nutrition in this country other than a veterinary specialty degree, which requires a DVM and then post graduate study and specialty degree. Anyone can call themselves a "dog nutritionist", and often, these people have no formal education and a mail order or weekend seminar is their only credential. 

[Rebecca bratter]

Ok, we will try the late night snack.  We have raw snacks from stella and chewy and we can save a bit of her dinner. We haven't been doing that as we thought we could head it off in the morning, but it's not working.  I'm working with a vet tech actually that has done some course work on animal nutrition but I doubt she has all the right creds, I just call her a dog nutritionist.  We live in Portland, OR now and it's wonderful as there are as many services for dogs as for people but can't say she's certified in anything besides vet tech.  The problem is the vets here are all keeping Madiba on the Proin, and it really works great.  this woman we are working with is the one who has recommended getting her on the hormones.  But we are taking Madiba for her titers this week and I will ask again about replacements for Proin, as she is going to a new vet.  Good suggestion, I was was just assuming they will all go to the proin.

[Debbie and Toby]

About the morning vomit, Toby also was doing this. He was vomiting bile in the mornings and this would happen when he went too long without eating. Toby gets 3 meals a day, then gets a "snack" in the evening about 7:30 - 8:00 pm. For his "snack" he gets about 1/8 - 1/4 cup of his kibble, sometimes we need to add a tsp of plain yogurt to entice him to eat it before bed.  He does not vomit in the mornings when he eats this snack in the evening. This has worked well for us, is it possible to feed a small amount mid day? Then also get the "snack" in the evening? I don't know anything about the Proin, maybe someone else here will have some input on that.  But I do hope she will feel better soon and not be vomiting in the mornings.

[Rebecca bratter]

I'm definitely going to try the night snack, thanks.  

[Jolene, Sassparilla & Josie]

My last girl was on prion for several years, she was with us up till just two weeks shy of 15 yrs. She had a multitude of issues long before she started the prion (for same issues, leaking bladder) so I don't know if it caused any further health issues. I can say it was a miracle drug, for her at least.

I agree with the evening snack as well. We have yummy chummies and two in the evening do the trick. We also give our girls some popcorn (made from scratch) in the evening, around 10 pm. The go crazy when the machine starts popping! Lol.

You've come to the right place for advice, wishing your baby all the best.

[Kamela & Beckett]

My senior schnauzer is on Incurin for leaky bladder. Hers didn't start until she was 10+ yrs old, so not sure it's the same but that's what we are using. You could maybe ask your vet if it would be appropriate ? Also found this: http://www.oasisanimalclinic.com/2014/07/22/urinary-incontinence-in...

[c zoomer]

A lot of good responses.  This group rocks.

Here's a left field idea.  The other day in the give away section of my local animal shelter was a timed food dish.  Why go with just a snack at bedtime when you can add a timed/spaced element !  I can't say how many hours the doods sleep at night.  My pup gets up at 3 am.  Certainly the sound of the gizmo would wake the dood.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I don't know what a "timed food dish" would be, but if it's one of those things where the food is automatically dispensed, not a good idea for any dog, IMO. Nor is eating throughout the night. Plus, I hope most of here share our bedrooms with our dogs, and having food in the bedroom along with noises in the middle of the night wouldn't work for me, lol.

I just googled "timed food dispenser for dogs" and they are also all plastic; you never want to feed any dog from a plastic dish. 

[c zoomer]

Boy, do I ever agree with you about plastic dishes.  My kitties got black heads on their chins from me using plastic.  They were airline dishes, and I thought they were "safe".  Ha!   I switched to glass for the kitties and the black heads were less of a problem. One of the kits had a difficult time with food and would not eat...then finally when he did eat, he would throw up. rather like the dood in question.

The timed device that I saw was made of plastic (sigh) and had two bowls with lids that opened at the appointed times.  If possible a glass liner could be used.  Sorry about the noise in the bedroom though.  I don't know if it makes a lot of noise or not. There wouldn't have to be a Meal in the dish, just whatever would work in the middle of the night to keep the hours between actual meals shorter than what was the current time...and just one bowl could be used.  My heart goes out to those sensitive pets; it would almost break when my kitty was like this.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

I think if a bedtime snack works, and those who have tried it say it does, that's really the best solution. 

[Rebecca bratter]

It's  been a good day today, we did the midnight snack and an early morning snack then a walk and then a small breakfast.  No throw up.  Boy was she psyched to get to eat after midnight.  Madiba is restless through the night but as i go to bed very late, sometimes 3am she is either relaxing with my husband or she is up with me but she won't fully sleep until I do.  She gets up around 8 and then sleep in with me.  I'm on a weird schedule since I work for myself, go to bed very late and get up late and so does Madiba but we are getting her early with my husband to eat.  I also took her off of the digestive enzyme. Let's see how the week goes.  Great info from all, I hadn't thought to take her off of the enzyme.  I know this place would be a great resource.  thanks!!

[Shari Becker]

Lexi occasionally throws up bile if she goes too long without food. It is definitely empty stomach. We also feed predominantly raw, but our vet suggested we consider finding some biscuit-like treats. We aren't adamant raw, so this is what we do. First, we try to feed Lexi closer to 7/7:30. Then we feed her by 6:30 / 7 AM latest. She's usually fine with that. If she eats earlier, we give her a few healthy-ish treats before bed. Dehydrated sweet potatoes or some fairly natural dog treats - she does love these fish cookies we pick up at a local dog bakery. It does have some grains in it, but the amount is so small. My friend's dog throws up all the time, and she has moved to three small meals, the last one being right before they go to bed. My friend feeds stella and chewy's too...