Board & Train Facility or IN Home Training for a fee....what would you do?

[Jodie]

I've searched this forum and I didn't think that I found the answer to my question, but I'm still trying to navigate around these pages so please let me know if I overlooked it......

I'm considering hiring a trainer for my mini doodle. We don't have access to training classes (other then a beginner's puppy class for $20 which is more about socializing the puppy then anything else). I found a place online (Called Midwest Dog Training). They will work with the dogs at their facility for 3-4 weeks or they will do in-home trainings that consist of 2 - 2hr sessions about 3 weeks apart. By the time they are done, they say that your dog will know all the simple commands as well as address behavioral concerns and house training issues. They assured me that he would no longer bite, he would walk on a leash/heel, and barking would be at a minimum.

Our puppy continues to bite. At this point, I can't have him around my daycare kids during the day. I allow him to run around after my kids lay down for a nap in the afternoon. He also bit my daughter in the back of the foot when she was walking to the next room (and it was bleeding everywhere). She didn't do anything to him, just walked past him. He also bit her in the ear a couple of days ago and bit me on my cheek today. I do NOT encourage any type of aggressive play or tug-of-war with his toys. He was used to playing w/my mini schnauzer, but he's grown to be a little bigger then him (maybe only 16 pounds now), so I'm trying to prevent "dog play" as well. I have tried to wear him down before allowing him to interact with my child. I know that a tired dog is a well behaved dog. However, he seems to always come back to the biting.

I have ALWAYS trained my own dogs. I say "always" and I've only had 3 in 23 years. However, I played with them all and easily trained them to do simple tricks and potty trained to go outside. I even had a special needs dog (blind, epilepsy) which did very well. SO, you can imagine my struggles at this point when I'm not getting the dog to act the way I expect. I know that my life is hectic now, but I firmly believe that many dogs can be trained to fit the environment they live in. I know that its a lot of money to spend to have my dog specially trained. But I also consider him to be a family member/friend/daycare buddy that will be around for 10+ years. I would like to know that I have given him the best training I could.

So, is it worth it?? Has anyone invested in classes like this? Would you recommend it? Are there concerns that I need to think about? I asked the trainer how it would work when Dex was brought back home and he said that they use a special collar ($200) that is gentle (Not a shock collar) and uses sensory stimulation to help give commands. He said that he would keep the collar and work with us when Dex came home so that we understand what he's learned. He said the transition is simple because all the commands are coming from a similar source. I would continue to work with him and eventually take the collar off if I felt comfortable. It sounds humane. I'm just wondering what others would invest to train their pups? Is this out of line? My husband thinks I'm crazy to consider it. He tells me to train him myself. However, I'm getting discouraged at the continued biting and feel that keeping him in a kennel half of the day is not the answer.

Thanks

[Sandy]

Debbie - looks like Thomas and Toby are similar in size, too. Toby weighed in at 51 pounds when he went for surgery. I see Thomas is almost 50......

[LeAnn, Lucy & Rusty!!]

Crate train, crate train, crate train. Unless you are there to supervise little Dex - he should be in the crate. As for the trainer, make sure he teaches YOU and the dog. As the old adage goes "Give a Man a Fish, Feed Him For a Day. Teach a Man to Fish, Feed Him For a Lifetime".

[sandy b]

I used in-home training for Max. We brought him home at 8 wks and at 9 wks he was a holy terror. All he wanted to do was chew on us and those little puppy vampire teeth really, really hurt!! I had read all the training books and nothing seemed to work plus I was very sleep deprived from taking him out several times a night. He was too young, didn't have all his puppy shots to enroll in puppy classes so on the recommendation of a friend I opted for an in-home trainer. This was a 5 wk course, she came once a wk and for $500 it was the best investment ever for my sanity!! Her first visit was almost 4 hrs as she explained her method (clicker training), what we would be learning and training me!! and about 15 min training Max given puppies short attention spans. All of the training was indeed done in the house as she explained there are too many smells, sounds outdoors for puppy to pay attention to command. We learned the basics - sit, down, stay, here (come), watch me, heel and all accompanied not only by verbal commands but hand signals. For me it was much easier working one-on-one with a trainer than in a group.

[Jodie]

Thanks again for your responses. I will have to talk to my child about the tree thing. Maybe I'll use her as the first example for Dex, in case we run into some issues. I worry that he could bite and harm/scare a daycare child. I know that he's a puppy and I know that yelling at him does NO good. I've talked to my husband about it. Last night, I read Adina's post to him and he seemed basically uninterested. He's honestly a very good person, but he doesn't give a lot of time or attention to dogs. We have a well trained Schnauzer that he loves and cares for very much. He's actually driving him 2 hrs to the University hospital for eye surgery next week. However, its as if he expects me to have a perfectly trained puppy within a few short weeks and I'm not capable of that. I doubt anyone is.

Having a trainer come into our home to help TRAIN us would be great! Maybe, just maybe, my husband and children would realize that this needs to be a group effort. IT would also be nice to confirm that we are all on the same page with Dexter's training. Although, the trainer that was talked about on here was available for 5 sessions as stayed up to 4 hrs for one of the sessions!!! That's amazing! I doubt I will have that type of attention from the trainer I was thinking of getting. I need to do some more checking to see if I can find someone in the Minnesota/Iowa area.

I'd also heard about attaching my pup to a leash and having him walk with me through the day. I have NO idea HOW I could accomplish that. Dexter isn't leash trained yet. I've worked with him, but only 5-10 minutes at a time. He can't handle much more then that without bucking around like a wild/trapped animal. Besides that, I'm moving all over the place during the day. The only time I would be more stationary is when I'm cooking lunch, and that's a time that I want Dex comfortable with staying in his kennel for sanitary reason's with the kids. Honestly, I think we just need the snow and cold to go AWAY so that I can get outside more with him. We're both getting stir crazy!

Thanks again to all of you for your encouraging posts. I'll let you know how things go....if/when we notice any changes.

[Adina P]

Pop-Quiz: In your own words...what is the purpose of the "Be a Tree" exercise???

[Jodie]

To allow my youngest child to interact with the puppy and help in training him. It also protects her from getting bitten (eventually). Although, I don't think it will be immediate...he likes to bite at her clothes too. I realize that the daycare kids can get involved too. However, many of them are not old enough to understand that concept...or at least to know how to apply it with a wild puppy jumping on them. At this point, he can knock some of them over.

[Adina P]

It's less about interaction and more about keeping the child from making it worse by RUNNING or SHRIEKING =) AND it gives you a signal (when the child sings whatever song or rhyme you decide on) that puppy is attacking and YOU can save the child and put puppy in time out. It helps reduce chaos. It won't necessarily teach puppy to not bite...puppy might still try for ankles, but if you can practice lots(without puppy) so the "be a tree" response is automatic then it is much better than having the child running and shrieking and enticing the puppy further.

[Lindsey, Lee, Whopper and Simba]

Most people have covered the puppy nipping, but I just wanted to add that I have a feeling your puppy pooping in the living room was a fear response. You stated that your husband was yelling and scared him under the table so I'd imagine that the fear/elevated stress level turned into a mess on the floor. In those circumstances you can't really get mad at the puppy but I do not suspect you will now have a pooping in the house problem.

[Jennifer]

You and I have so much in common right now, so please feel free to lean on me if needed. I have an older schnauzer (she's 10), and a 13/14 week old doodle. I also have three kids, 15 months, 5, and 8, and an orange tabby cat. It sounds like you need some support, a puppy can be very stressful, especially if the whole family is not on board. Gromit peed on my BED twice in two days, and believe me I was freaked out. I do know that this will pass, and you will have a wonderful dog. I wanted to adopt an older dog because puppies are so hard, especially with kids, but honestly in the long run this is a great way to do it, just keep the faith!

If you are comfortable at all being bossy with your husband, now is the time. In my experience men respond well to facts. Say something like this: "This is what smart, active puppies do, you can either educate yourself on it and have a great dog, or you can work against me and then this dog needs to go."

As for your child, explain how little the puppy is, point out a human baby the same age, and tell the child the only way such a young puppy can learn is from us. Screaming and chasing seems like such fun, so we are teaching them to continue. Freezing and waiting it out, using "ouch" lets them know to stop.

Gromit is only a few weeks older, and the nipping is really almost done. He will now nip at things the kids have sometimes, but not at them. It isn't an easy few weeks, but it goes by fast. Yelling will hurt the process because the puppy is playing with you guys just the same way that he played with his litter mates. He isn't being aggressive and biting, he is playing. Your husband really needs to understand that.

I don't think you should ever train a doodle with a sensory collar, they are too smart and too sensitive to need that. What seems like a personality trait to you right now (a biting dog), is really only a puppy playing. Over the next few weeks with maturity will come an understanding of what kind of play is OK. You don't have a difficult dog, you have a smart puppy. You can however create problems if your husband doesn't get on board here.

As for training, try not to worry too much. All we have done in puppy class is sit, down, settle, and the bite inhibition I explained in my last class. That is it. It would be really, really simple for you to do these things at home. I will keep you posted on what we learn on Saturday as well. Also, make sure to socialize him as much as possible. 100 people in 2 weeks we were told. Also, try to tire him out as much as possible because a tired puppy is a calm puppy.

[Jennifer]

oh, and.....I actually have started putting my hand out in a way to encourage a nip so I can keep up with my "ouch" training, and he doesn't even nip. A few weeks ago you couldn't even pet him because he would swivel his head around like the exorcist and nip, nip, nip.

[Jodie]

Jennifer...thanks for putting your comments here. I'm relieved to know that I'm not alone in all of this. It's interesting how much we have in common. I would really love to hear MORE about what you learn in your class.

GOOD NEWS!! Petco has their trainer back. Apparently, she has done MANY puppy classes as well as offers to do things one on one with pet owners. She was gone on medical leave and has NOW returned. We signed up for puppy classes to begin on March 24th. I'm sure they are not the best classes available, but I'm happier about the fact that I have SOMEWHERE to go with Dexter and get him to interact. I always assumed that he was a social little guy. However, I now realize that he's shy at times (love that), and I may want to get him to interact a little more.

I am SOOOOOOO Hoping that we don't have a pooping issue in the house. Last night was the FIRST and ONLY time that he's done that. I do agree that it may have been fear induced. Also, however, I had a feeling that maybe he had to go and I didn't give him enough time outside. Had I been in the room, I know it wouldn't have happened. I can tell...something in his eyes.....when he needs to go outside. I've been working with him to get him to bark. I know...terrible things to teach your puppy. I just get excited and repeat, "Want to go outside??!!!" and he gets excited with me and will give a bark as we run to the door. Then, I give him a small treat within seconds of him going potty (before he gets back inside my house). He has gotten very smart.....often going potty 4-5 times an hour (and I always reward him). I've taught him to "sit" when I give him the treat (he was attacking me before). Now, he sits almost immediately and waits for his treat. Not sure if that helps with the house training or not.

I agree that I need to be stern with my husband with regard to the training. I'm not sure how to get him to listen to me. At this point, Adina's comment earlier about always being WITH Dexter, is a good idea. As I said, if I'm in the room, I will be able to see what he's doing.

In the meantime, I will PRAY that my Dexter will outgrow the nipping/biting thing VERY soon. That would be wonderful. I remember when I was concerned about the "humping" thing that he did and about as soon as it started, it ended. So, I'm relieved that we must have done something right! Hopefully, I will do something right with this! I feel like its an uphill battle, but I APPRECIATE ALL OF THE ADVICE AND CONCERN FROM THE REPLIES ON THIS BOARD. I would feel so alone otherwise! Thanks so much!!!

[Debbie and Thomas]

Jodie, I left a comment a few days ago about the biting-we've been through it and it was just awful! BUT-this too will pass. I bet any money that Dexter and your husband will become best friends. One night, I heard my husband say"get this dog away from me".(this man is a dog lover) I quickly gathered up our puppy and kept him with me until I put him to bed that night. I was really upset and the next morning the puppy and I drove my husband to the airport as he was going away on business. I mentioned to him that I could see the beginnings of a lovely natured dog. He said "of course he is". When I mentioned what he had said the night before, he told me he didn't mean it literally, but that the dog was biting the "you know what" out of him and he was out of patience. Well that was over two months ago and they are best buddies now. It sounds like your Dexter is on the same "frequency" as our Thomas. He started the humping very early for a week, then that ended, then the biting started and I thought-OK this will also stop soon. It took longer but it did. Our dog spent alot of time in his crate for "time outs", us being statues< and we also would put him in the backyard to cool off. The thing that worked the best though was in the evening, when we put him on a long leash, but not long enough to reach any of us. We tied it to a door nearby and he lots of room to roam and play-but he could not reach us. We gave him a bone thing that I bought to chew on and he was quite happy. He was still with us as a family but could not attack us.He was fine with this and even if he wasn't, too bad. We decided that we did not want to lock him up all of the time and if he whined we would just try to ignore this behaviour. He never did and was much happier than being around us. He is a very good boy now-he still has his moments of being a brat, but he is only 5 1/2 months old-still a puppy. Your puppy classes will make a HUGE difference in your relationship with him. Good for you in taking him. He is just so cute. You'll see as I did that the biting is normal, although annoying and worrisome. Good luck in your classes, Debbie and her GD Thomas in Toronto