Has anyone ever quit obedience classes?

[Sandy]

We have been attending Grade One obedience classes with Toby. We are a little disappointed. We have indeed learned some valuable things, but feel like we aren't progressing. He does not perform like he does at home when we are in class. The instructors seem to look at him and assume "big dog, a little unruly, solution - gentle leader." There is SO much information in the time we're there, and then when you're trying to control your dog AND listen, and it just seems so overwhelming. I'm wondering whether we'd do better in a smaller class environment. I guess I'm just feeling somewhat discouraged, and tired of people thinking we can't learn things. Last week he wouldn't even do "down", and they wanted me to pull down on the leash, and "help" him into a down, even though he drops on a dime at home. "sigh"

[Paula]

I had never been before but now am taking two back to back Dandy 8 mos 7-8 Rocky 6 mos 8-9
10 dogs per class one instructor in middle calling out instructions with three walking around assisting and coaching and correcting if needed. We learn only a couple of moves per class. My dogs are very food oriented and I give them a smaller breakfast and no dinner the day of the class so I guess they're starving. Who has the better night varies, alot depends on me, you're right about that. This past Wednesday only 5 of us showed up for each class and things went even better. Initially I found them a little rougher than I normally am training my dogs. I wasn't the only one. But, with two of ten classes remaining my puppies will have pretty much mastered sit, down, stay, watch me, leave it, front, recall, stay from a long distance, walking on a loose leash, shoulder to my knee heel and not to jump up on people though they already pretty much didn't do this. The trainers even run around with Almos talking and squeaking toys close by the dogs while they're in sit and hardly any of the dogs move except to look at them. they must be pumping something into the air there now that I see this in print! I think the key must be a very small class, very few behaviors taught, many many repeitions and reviews, very hungry dogs, and an adequate number of instructors per dog.I primarily took them to class because of the socialization and the distractions and to separate from EACH OTHER while they learned.
I don't know how much you are paying for your classes and I am kinda interested. But just for interest sake...I paid $80 per dog. Was that expensive?
I paid $ 75 per private Clicker Training one on one lessons with one dog; a 3 1/2 yr. old female Bouvier last year. We took 4 lessons. I thought that was expensive.

[Sandy]

We paid $300...so you didn't overpay. We get 9 classes of 1 1/2 hours each for that, plus a training manual.

[Sandy]

It is an hour and a quarter of dog and person class, and another 15 minutes of talk afterwards. The floor instructors do walk around and help as we try to master different things. It is a lot of information every evening. I think I will take the advice of a few and go for a bathroom break halfway through.

[Adina P]

Just wondering do you get any one-to-one attention for problem solving if you ask? I did all of Rosco's training on my own and so did Clark with Thule and Cass. So I've never really been a part of a class (except when I helped teach our local 4H last year). I personally would expect the teacher to give tips and suggestions and help if/when anyone was having trouble. Either the training is GOOD enough so that all the problems are dealt with in class or the manual or there is individual attention. Anything less than that seems like a lot of money to go stand around for 1.5 hours when you could read the same info in a book.

On the other hand, are you putting lots of practice in with Toby every single day? Are you practicing in areas that resemble class or at least using some distractions? Has your trainer taught you how to use distractions? Most dogs do great at home, but their training breaks down in public if they don't practice in public. Remember dogs don't generalize well. If they learn 'sit' at home and never do it anywhere else, it's as if they don't know what to do elsewhere. It's up to us to train them that sit means the same thing everywhere they might accompany us.

[Sandy]

We are trying to practise what we learned in class when we're out and about. Like at the dog park - he was doing "with me" off leash, in a dog park! He has to sit at every street corner, and when we greet people or other dogs. We practise stay often - we are working on come ( on a long lead) etc. I think it's just going to be repetition and time for Toby. He's definitely smart - it's probably error on my part holding him back. I know dogs read body language, so I'll try to be careful not to let stress show.

[Adina P]

Sounds like you're doing the right things...just keep it up. Dogs don't know it's "Class" time necessarily. And 1.5 hours is an awful long time to keep a pup focused in some settings. I'm sure your practice sessions don't last that long.

Got any friends with dogs you can meet with now and then to go through obedience exercises together? maybe a local kennel club you can join? Ours meets weekly for "handling class" which is just folks getting together in one spot and working on various AKC things, but if your group is nice they'd gladly let you join in and practice other things.

[Stella]

Stick with it Sandy, you guys are doing great! Remember, Toby is being a teenager!! Try not to let him wind you up, as that will mean that neither of you are enjoying yourselves. I can say this in hindsight, and will probably need you to remind me of this again in about five months time!!! Will the instructor spend a bit of time with you one on one at the end of the class for you to ask questions and let her know how you are feeling? The instructor needs to know you are not enjoying it.

When we were really struggling with Hartley in his Level Two (I think equivalent to the the course you guys are doing now) we were offered to retake the class at a reduced cost, some individual sessions if we wanted, and the chance to re-take the exam as many times as we liked at no extra cost. Luckily, he pulled it together at the last minute and passed. But, you should ask them what your options are.

If you want to practice with doggy distractions, let me know. Even if you only want someone (and their dogs!!) to walk around you guys while you do your thing. You could then bounce a ball for us to help Hartley with his 'problem'!!! We don't mind helping out, we have been there too and know exactly what you are going through.

Can you ask any of the other owners if they'd like to get together before the class, I think I remember you saying there was an outdoor enclosed area there? That way you could let your dogs have a bit of a run together before the class to get the socialising out of the way before you go in?

[Sandy]

Thanks for your input. You are a great source for me, having just gone through all this stuff! Another owner was running their dog before class last time, so I think we'll plan on going early and let Toby run out some of his nonsense ahead of time. Maybe I'll just bring you and Dave along as character witnesses for Toby during our last lesson.....you can tell them you've actually seen him doing some things properly! :) I'll let you know if we think we can handle walking along with other dogs - maybe closer to the end of lessons, so he's ready for his test?

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

Hi again - Stick with it. You are putting in the time and getting some results - even if not in the class. One and one half hours IS a long time. What you are experiencing is negative owner reinforcement, and not done very well at that. Try to ignore that and focus on Toby. Try bringing your puppy hungry and feed him his kibble as rewards. When his attention flags switch to a tasty treat. Alternately bring a tasty treat and an extremely smelly tasty treat as the second treat. Dogs are pretty sensitive to the leash mate ( that's you). When you feel frustrated by what sounds like poor coaching, try to refocus your energy on your wonderful puppy using just the concept or idea that you were given.
If your dog is very high energy, blowing off some steam would be great ahead of time, that would work well with my Roo. However my other doodle Tigger would just be ready to rest and have difficulty concentrating well. So be sure to walk that line between "taking the edge off" and "loosing the edge".

Lastly for next class choose a different trainer. This one is clearly a bad match for you and Toby.

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

I have read all the posts and comments and I personally think you should continue the class.

You mentioned that at home your dog will drop on a dime and in class he wont and you have to physically guide him. You also mentioned that he is very exuberant and likes to play in class.

These are enough reasons alone to continue. Working in a class with other dogs and people provide needed distractions, when your dog will Down on a dime in class and isn't so focused on other peoples food and pays attention to you then you know you have success.

Training is what you make it. Your trainer can not guarantee you success only you determine your level of success.

[HANNAH 8/2/07 & HONEY 7/2/08]

Hi Sandy,
You also mention going to the dog park, Toby is off leash and playing. When he runs from you and plays, get his attention and call him back to you, make him learn to come front and sit in front of you at the dog park, once he does this, give him a treat, and than tell him to go play, repeat this a few times while your there. This is a great place to train, and be sure he has his most favorite treats, set him up for success. My first Rottie was such a bad dog she probably thought for the first 3 1/2 years of her life her name was "NO NO BAD DOG"!!!! Everyone told me not to use treats when training, a dog should listen and want to be with you, you need to make it fun for them. Well at 3 1/2 I had enough, no 100lb. dog was walking me down a street or controling my house. We went back to obedience classes, used her fav. treat (hot dogs) and wound up finishing 1st out of 30 dogs. At age 6 1/2 she took her Therapy dog test which by the way the Head tester hated Rotties and felt she would never pass, and was going to make an example out of Magic and myself. I stayed very positive and focused for her, and once again Magic showed them all. Hannah my first doodle is great at obedience when she wants to be, she can be fantastic at agility, when she wants to be. I'm still looking for her motivater cause its not food or toys, she is very very laid back. Funny thing about clicker training, what happens when your out and you forget that clicker, or you loose it, your dog is not gonna know how to respond without that click. I rely on them learning my commands and reinforcing it with a good girl or boy, and sometimes a treat. Take breaks, sometimes switch different locations during the class just to keep Toby focused, and yes 1 1/2 hours is way to long for training, even if 15 mins is talk, most we ever did was an hour. They tell you to train at home for 15 to 20 mins a day, so why should learing be much longer than that. Our class is usually a combination of work, talk, free time to relax your dog. I am to the point also, and my trainers know this, depending on how I am doing with my disability I will go sit down when I have to, and Hannah gets a break, if she is showing me she really does not want to do something, I take a break. You can over train, you can have a dog that will shut down, Go for a potty break with Toby, sometimes just little distractions we create can help. Please let us know how Toby does this week at class and also talk with the trainers, Im sure they will tell you everything we have discussed on here. Even if Toby isn't 1st or the best in class, it don't really matter, what matters is you spent the money, took the time, and trained with him, good quality time "YOU" spent with your dog, thats what priceless is and last forever. Best of wishes...Denise...Hannah&Honey

[Sandy]

Well....that was lovely and encouraging. Thank you. I think we will finish out the classes, and just do our best. I probably get my back up too quickly, just like with my kids. "I" can correct my kids, and know they aren't doing their best, but if someone else does - ooh, look out. :) And my husband, who sits at the side and can observe the WHOLE class, assures me that there are a lot of other dogs in class doing worse than Toby, and that if he does pass, neither will a bunch of others. So, I'll keep you posted. We go again on Friday......