Correction collar?

[diane silver]

I'm hoping for some guidance here. Emma is just about a year old (June 2nd), and is an absolute love; HOWEVER, she has a habit, only when excited and especially around children (my grandsons included), of jumping, nipping at their clothing, nipping at their hands, and just being very hard to control, especially if the child is running. Today at the park, she did it to a little boy and grabbed his hand - luckily, she didn't hurt him, but I was mortified. Some of the other dog owners suggested that maybe I should try an E-collar, and just try beginning with a "light" vibration/shock, which really upsets me :( Does anyone have any suggestions here? Thanks.

[Adina P]

Hi Diane,

First let me say that I don't think an electronic collar is evil or wrong or unethical. There are many who have used this device correctly and have used it successfully (though I have never used one myself). However, since the idea upsets you, I would hold off because if YOU are not comfortable using a tool it won't be very useful to you.

But secondly, there are other ways to train Emma to respond differently without the e-collar if you'd prefer to go another route. Remind us how much obedience training she has had. Has she gone through several levels of obedience? Most dogs can learn to sit and stay, etc in boring environments and in a classroom where it is always the same dogs every week...but training has to go beyond that and you and Emma have to practice everywhere. Each and every interaction with others really should be practice time and until then ... If she is 'hard to control' in some situations that merely shows she is not done being trained.

I would not let her go to the dog park and other places without making that time a training time.

That said...I personally don't think little kids should be at dog parks...so don't feel bad.

[diane silver]

Thanks, Adina, for your response. I agree about kids being at the dog park, though he was with his family (including their dog!). As for training, yes, she's done Graduate Puppy and Intro to Agility, etc., etc., and I have to say that the only scenario where she behaves this way is with children! She is very good at coming when I call her at the park and sitting for treats at the park, but this issue seems to be her nemesis. I will have to assess whether or not I feel comfortable going the collar route or whether I can deal with this some other way. In the meantime, I've contacted the trainer that we worked with for puppy classes to ask for her advice and guidance, and as always, appreciate all the advice and guidance I get here!

[Adina P]

I don't think puppy classes are enough. I think you need to go through Advanced levels. And you need to do some of your work AROUND kids (maybe with them at a distance at first) so that you master obedience in these scenarios too. I think contacting the trainer is a great idea and she can give you guidance on 'how to' work around kids so she learns self-control around children too.

[Tara]

Have you tried practicing having Emma sit while one kid at a time pets her? Any time Emma gets up from the sit the kid has to back up and start over. If she practiced with your grandsons at home and then at the park hopefully it will start to generalize to all kids.

Our Sadie still gets really excited when we have guests over (she just turned 1) and we do this with her. She isn't 100% consistent yet, but she is really good with the people that come over the most (which also happens to be the ones that she's practiced this the most with because they are here the most). We now don't have to keep a leash on her when guest arrive.

Good luck.

[LuvMyAbby&Kaela]

I would like to hear them as well. Abby is only 4 months old and loves people and goes nuts greeting everybody she sees (just for a minute then she is over it) but not everyone likes to be greeted so enthusiastically. I have a friend who uses an E-collar on her lab. She says it doesnt hurt her....she had her son test it out on his hand...lol.

[F, Calla & Luca]

I started using an electronic collar on Luca about a month ago (started in class with trainer). I have only used it on vibrate and don't always use it. However, it made a huge difference in getting him to come when called. I did try it on myself and before I got to the maximum shock it was quite painful and caused a reflex muscle contraction. I don't think my dog needs this nor would I want to use it on shock except if all else failed and I thought the result would be life saving i.e. recall. There is a bloodhound in the class and she can be pretty insensitive to a shock. Doggtra has a collar which can be used for vibration alone. Many others do not seem to have this.

[Adina P]

Check out www.loucastle.com for excellent info on remote collar training.

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

I had an e- collar on one of my doodles for about a year. It was very helpful for reinforcement in a high drive ( read excitable, overly interested, hyper) dog. The trainer who taught me to use it properly would definitely NOT recommend it in the situation you are describing and neither would I. My e-collar doodle, Roo, did exactly what you describe and I was specifically directed not to use it in this situation. For my dog a very slight stimulation (2 with a heavy full coat, not shaved or clipped short) was sufficient to remind him to pay attention to me, for automatic sit reinforcement, heel, etc. A higher stimulation was necessary for getting his attention in highly distractable situations, like a child running near. With a high stimulaiton you may get a reaction different than what you expect. It might cause aggression. This would be okay if the dog were to be aggressive toward the garbage, not so great if another dog involved or worse person. I was specifically reminded over and over not to activate the collar in these situations I really never used it on my Roo in a higher stimulation except to stop his barking, that only took about three times. Except for barking the e- collar is intended for reinforcement and not stopping an unacceptable behavior.

Hope this is helpful

Meanwhile Roo is getting better and better about greeting people politely. He is about 20 months and I did not see real improvement, (despite my best efforts) until about 16 months. I would suggest patience and constant practice in controlled situations. Practice with your grandsons in their "quiet mode" sitting, standing, etc. Ask them to help you train Emma. Do short sessions to keep both Emma and grandsons experience positive. I have to use random park children, but most often they are quite ready to practice their dog trainer skills. Remove Emma while they run or put her on a leash attached to you holding a lot of treats which she earns by laying quietly by you. Again, much patience required.

[diane silver]

Thanks, Maryanne. You, like the dog trainer who led the puppy classes we took, also said no to an e-collar for Emma. Her suggestion (I emailed her with what happened at the park) was to try a citronella collar. But I also think it's an age thing and that she'll outgrow it, but in the meantime, I will employ my grandsons and work on this with her. I really don't want to resort to an e-collar and hope that she'll become calm around kids (which I have every confidence she will). In the meantime, I am going to work on this so it doesn't escalate. Actually, I have to say that I've noticed she's become better with our kids, but she'll still not trustworthy and that's what I need to "fix."

[2xk2ir4z9b3au]

FYI - we bought a citronella collar for our Sadie and while it is very effective in getting her attention - the battery runs out very quickly. I'd do your research before purchasing as it has turned out to be more of a pain than anything as we are constantly changing out the battery and refilling the citronella cartridge.

[fergie11]

Most people won't like this but I personally am a big fan of e-collars. My electric fence system came with one so I had it in the house anyway. I think i've lightly zapped Fergie only a couple of times to correct her. Mine has a tone button (it's not even a vibrate, just a tone) and that's the only thing I every use now. Also I hardly use the collar at all anymore but once in a while we do need a little reminder session. The tone is all she needs now. If these collars actually hurt your dog, I'm sure they'd be illegal. Most of them come with videos to help you train. I also want to say though, if you're not comfortable with it, don't do it but for me and many of my friends they have solved a great many problems that other training just didn't work for.

[Moose&Mica]

When we first started training I was hesitant about using a prong collar, but we have actually graduated to an e-collar for both of ours (for certain situations). We use it mostly for the dog park because they don't hear us when they are running... the feet get going and the ears turn off. We use it on the next to lowest setting only and it does work wonders. I have only had them yelp once and I think it was more it startled them than it hurt them. It is definitely an effective tool when used properly. I call it my 1000 foot leash. :) I have used it occasionally in the car when Moose starts whining so loud that it distracts my driving (safety issues). The old style of collars were what I would call cruel. I saw a movie on e-collars put out by a trainer who was showing the advancements from the old style shock collars. Those would deliver quite a shock. The newer styles are totally adjustable and you decide how much of a reminder the dog needs. I don't think any of the new ones come near the same level of electric pulse that the old ones did....even at the highest settings. If you decide this is the route you want to take, it's very helpful if the collar comes with a hands on training session. At least I found it very helpful.