Taste of the Wild vs. Chicken Lovers For The Soul (and others)

[Jerry Kandel]

The breeder we are getting our puppy from has had him on Chicken Lovers for the Soul) - there are no stores around us carrying that brand - furthermore, I understand it's not grain free - so researching grain free foods it looked like TOTW had some high ratings and a lot of followers. So my few questions:

1) Do most believe that grain-free is better for a puppy?
2) TOTW has high protein -- would that be good or bad for a puppy?
3) How do most of you feel about TOTW (I know every food will have a few negatives - but do the majority feel that this is a pretty good food?
4) Lastly: would most recommend the salmon or one of the other flavors?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There is no corn or wheat in any of the foods we recommend in TFG, and those are the only grains that are known to contribute to the development of allergies in dogs. Oatmeal, barley, brown rice, millet, rye, and so on are perfectly healthy for dogs, and for some dogs, help to fill them up, prevent gas, and form firmer stools. This is an individual choice. You are correct that grains are not necessary for dogs, and are more difficult to digest than proteins.
That said, I myself prefer grain-free food, and use Orijen on the advice of my dog's specialist. Jack does have allergies, but not to food.
There is some controversy as to high protein diets for large-breed puppies, as there is some thought that it contributes to too-rapid bone growth and may stress the kidneys. Again, there is no proof of this. The issue is still up for debate.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jerry, the food is called "Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul"; Have you checked the website for a store locator? Which formula is the puppy currently being fed? If you switch him, you will want to stay with the same main protein source initially, so that's important to know.
Many of us here who were using TOTW switched to other brands because of some controversy regrading ethoxyquin in the food and some word-play from the manufacturer. The grain free foods that are curreently most preferred in TFG are Orijen, Acana, and EVO; there is also a grain-free formula by Fromm's which is another manufacturer we like. Solid Gold has a grain-free formula, but not for young puppies.
I don't think there is any consensus as to whether or not grain-free or high protein are better for puppies than foods containing grains and lower proteins. On one end of the spectrum, there are those who feed puppies straight protein raw diets from the time they're weaned. On the other hand, there are those who feed a low protein, high carb diet. I'm sure you'd find pups on both sides who thrive.
We like www.petfoodanalysis.com for reviewing dog foods ingredients and choosing between foods. But whatever you decide, you really should try to keep the main ingredients as close as possible to the CSFTDLS formula that the pup is currently eating, and please wait a week after your pup arrives in your home before making any changes at all. The stress of leaving his mother and littermates is enough for a baby. If you can't find the current food near you, ask to purchase a week's worth from the breeder or order it on-line.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Jerry, ignore the above link! That should have been
www.dogfoodanalysis.com

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Here's the analysis for the "Chicken Soup" puppy formula that the breeder is likely feeding.
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?pro...
The food is highly rated at 5 stars, and contains some healthier grains, properly placed in the ingredients list after several named meats & meat meals. I would have no hesitation with feeding this food to your pup. If you decide you prefer to go with a grain-free food, there's plenty of time to investigate the choices available and switch in the coming months.
I located a couple of stores in your area that sell this food and left a note on your page.
Interestingly enough, the protein in the "Chicken Soup" formula is than the TOTW Pacific formula which is the fish based formula. The CS is at 28% and the TOTW is at 25%!
Here's the review for TOTW Pacific:
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?pro...
EVO and Orijen are much higher in protein, and both make puppy formulas, which TOTW does not.

[Julie B.]

Karen... I didn't think about the different proteins when starting to switch Luah and my puppy over to Fromm's salmon. The puppy was on Nutro for large breed puppies and it was a chicken based food. So far the puppy seems to be doing fine on the switch. I hope the change from chicken to fish does not cause problems. She also gets yogurt with each meal. Luah is also doing well. Granted I am only 3 days into it, but they both seem to like it and the poops continue to be firm.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It won't cause any problems. Nutro is so full of carp (misspelling intentional) that the pup has a cast iron stomach by now anyway, lol!
In a perfect world, I'd just like to minimize changes for tiny puppies as much as possible. And we seem to hear so much about diarrhea problems with these doodle babies! If you transition slowly, changing the protein really won't do any harm.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Also, regarding my above statement that corn & wheat are the only grains known to contribute to food allergies, it's possible that the reason for that is that those are the two grains most commonly found in commercial dog foods, and historically most often eaten by the allergic dogs for whom test data is available. Any food has the potential to contribute to food allergies, and the more common a food is, the longer a dog eats it, the more likely it is that a food allergy will develop. Lamb-and-rice diets are no longer used for allergy trials because they've become so common...now it's duck or venison & potato.
This is one of the reasons that after a few months of age, it's a good idea to switch around the main proteins in your dog's diet.

[Kelly Gallagher]

My puppy came home on Nutro...after a couple of months I switched her to Chicken Soup because she had MANY stools a day 6 -8 and they were loose.At first the Chicken Soup seemed ok..but she started having very loose stools again. Eventually I switched her to TOTW Pacific Stream (Salmon) and it has worked GREAT for us. She has normal solid stools and loves her food. The Pacific stream is the lower protein formula of the different TOTW choices which is why I went with that. After much trial and error with our Maddy we discovered that the high protein was causing her problems..she also has trouble with bully sticks and peanut butter (both very high protein). The Chicken soup food has a mixture..I believe 4 different proteins 2 of which were duck and something else that was high protein..we are pretty sure this food was just too rich for her. As she gets closer to a year old we plan on trying the other TOTW formulas..but they are much higher in protein so I'm not sure she will tolerate it. Good luck!

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Yeah, the CS puppy formula has lots of different animal protein...chicken, duck, turkey, several kinds of fish...I think what might make a difference in the case of Jerry's puppy is that the breeder already has the pup on this formula, and we have to assume the puppy is doing well on it, or the breeder would be feeding something else.
When you're ready, your pup should tolerate higher protein levels just fine. Protein is the easiest of the three macronutrients for dogs to digest & utilize.

[Dianne Carter ~ Trinity Doodles]

Umm, hate to cast a shadow but... Chicken Soup for the Dog Lovers Soul is manufactured by Diamond Foods. Because their formulas use fish meal and it is common knowledge that Diamond purchases their fish meal on the commodities market you may consider collecting information on your options. The other part of that is their formula lists what is a growing trend in the industry ~ ocean fish meal. Over the last year or so many have slipped that in rather than the formerly listed specific fish meals. Bad news for several reasons, the most obvious is that if your doodle has issues say with salmon, and you selected a formula based on another fish ingredient and your next bag now has ocean fish meal, you do not really know if you are free from salmon or not, additionally you can be sure ocean fish meal will be based of cost and profit and the composition of fish meal in todays bag is very likely to be different in next week bag. TOTW is also manufactured at Diamond and they use fish meal in all three formulas, it is the original culprit that drew attention and exposed the fish meal issue.

If your pup can handle grains which they apparently are doing if they are on CS have you considered Natura's California Natural? I is a wonderfully simple formula and really seems to give great coats. We have a couple that are prone to yeast and so we do avoid foods that may convert to sugar faster and further feed yeast.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Thanks, Dianne, I didn't know about the Diamond connection. I always check the ingredients sources on foods I am considering using, but hadn't looked into the Chicken Soup line or checked on the supply chain because it's never come up before here.
Thank goodness we have you!

[Jerry Kandel]

Totall confusing - but I thank everyone for their comments. If you look at the vaious review sites, TOTW gets rated high - as does CS - while CA. Natural doesn't. I guess the proper decision is to try different foods - ensuring that they have premium ingredients and when your puppy licks the bowl then you know that you probably found the right food (key word here: probably!). For Karen: our new puppy (Bailey) - whom we get this week at age 11 weeks - just came over from Scotland - so he has not been on any dog food for a prolonged period of time.