Problems with an irresponsible owner of an aggressive dog.

[Heather & Jake]

This just really irks me so I had to vent and get it out somewhere where people would understand.  Has anyone else out there ever experienced doodle related dog aggression???

In our first dog obedience session three months ago, there was a rescued male Pitbull, about 3 years old, named Pluto.  At the very first class his owner tells us in her introduction that Pluto does not always get along with other dogs.  This immediately sets of a light bulb in my head... if you know your dog can be aggressive, why the heck don’t you have a muzzle on it for not only the safety of others’ dogs, but to not even take the chance of your dog attacking???  My parents have two dog aggressive female rescues, one of which is a Pitbull mix so I have nothing against the breed. They don’t go anywhere without their muzzles just to be safe.  I have also had two rescues in the past put down for being aggressive.  We live in a very strict county that does not take aggression lightly… I would know!   

Anyways, as the first class went on, you could tell there were two dogs Pluto did not like: my 6 month old puppy Jake, and Buster the huge black Goldendoodle.  He would get very tense around them and just stare us all down.  At one greeting practice he even snipped at Jake as we were turning back around but did not get him.  The rest of the class proceeded without incident.

The next week, about 20 minutes into class, out of nowhere, Pluto attacked.   We were taking a little break and we’re about 10 feet away from him and his owner, but Pluto just took her off guard and next thing we knew, he had Jake by the lower jaw.  Jake was screaming and luckily from my experience with breaking up dog fights we were able to stop it before it got worse.  We got Jake to calm down and had a look at his jaw, and it wasn’t too bad but it was punctured and swollen on the outside and inside of his lip; he was very fluffy at the time and I feel all the hair helped protect him.  Jake was a shook up and for the rest of the class and would not interact with any other dog just cowered behind us while Pluto was on the lookout.  No matter how far away, he had his eye on Jake and was pulling and trying to get back at him for more; luckily his owner was paying attention this time.  At the end of class it really bothered be because she didn’t even apologize!!!!

A few days later, our trainer called and asked how Jake was doing and what I thought/felt on the situation.  I felt that as long as Pluto wore a muzzle, I would be fine with him returning to class for obviously he needs the socialization.  But the choice was not up to me and he was kicked out. 

Last night we had our first session of the next level.  Because it’s now summer, we picked a new time and location to have our class which also involved a new trainer… lo and behold as we pull up, Pluto is walking in.  I thought since it is was a county run training program, and knowing how strict our county is, that he was kicked out for good.  Apparently not; he was just transferred to another class; the class that fed into the one we had switched to.  As we approach his owner shouts out a hello and remarks how big he has gotten and talks about how they kicked her out… still no apology.  And of course she’s being a loud mouth shouting over the rest of the class creating a scene and putting me in a very awkward situation.

As class proceeds, this time when we introduce all of ourselves, she asks that we all give her and  Pluto a wide berth because “he had connected with the fluffy guy over there before.”  No, he didn’t connect, he attacked and she’s now trying to make it out as if it’s not a big deal.  Pluto is still not wearing a muzzle and still has it out for my little guy 3 months after the first attack... he would not take his eyes off Jake the entire class, just stares him down and she had to keep correcting him to get his attention back. Thankfully my happy-go-lucky, submissive Jake doesn’t seem to remember or care, but needless to say we were always at least 15ft apart so he didn’t get a chance to “meet” Pluto again.

If his owner were to apologize and take the proper precautions with him wearing a muzzle I wouldn’t care so much but it really bothers me with the audacity of his owner putting other dogs in danger when she knows what hers can be like, and just thinking that staying far enough away is the answer.  She brings a muzzle with her, but what good is it if he’s not wearing it?  What, are you going to put it on after your dog attacks again???  If this trainer weren’t as good as she is I’d switch classes right now.

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

I would leave the class and ask for my $ back.  Peri's trainer would not stand for that and would work with Pluto 1:1 instead of risking something.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Have you discussed this with the trainer? Certainly she could ask the owner to muzzle the dog in light of the "Connection" he and Jake have had in the past and is obviously still going on in Pluto's mind.

[Nicky, Riley & Boris]

I don't think you can risk being in this class if an unmuzzled dog who attacked Jake in the past is going to be there.  How could you possibly relax in the situation.  I would go to the person in charge of the training facility and tell them .

[Pam & Trixie]

Wow,   Im really sorry that happened.  Im glad he was not hurt worse.

 My 60#  Flat Coat was attacked by a Pitbull Mix While we were out walking her.  he whipped her back & forth in the air.  it took both my Husband & I to get him to let go after about 20 minutes.

 

I would never want to stay in a class where there is a dog that is that aggressive.

I do feel that dog should have to leave,  Not you.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I would definitely leave the class and ask for a refund. It's not worth putting your guy at risk! You can find another...

 

And Pluto should not be in a regular obedience class, he should be in a behavior class designed for dogs with aggression problems. 

[Joanne ~ Spud*]

First, one positive thing it that the aggressive dog's owner still continues to seek training and help. I do  think that aggressive dogs should  be in a class.  There are ways to include them and many benefits.

I've been in a few classes with aggressive dogs.  The trainer, insisted the dog have a muzzle on and that the muzzle remains on for the entire class.  I fault the TRAINER the most in this situation.

Since the owner is there to learn, the trainer should show "how to" muzzle lesson first, then ENCOURAGE the owner and everyone else in the class when/where/how/and who needs to use muzzles!  They are a very good thing.  

I own one myself and would not hesitate to use them if the situation warranted. 

I'm sorry your dog was attacked.  How horrible.  You should be able to attend and feel safe.   Again, I think the trainer missed the boat here, and left out some very important messages: muzzles are a good thing and should be used, what to do in case of an attack, how to handle your aggressive dog...... so many more.

 

[Heather & Jake]

I completely agree.  They do not hurt the dog; I don't know why people are so resistant to use them. 

I did speak to the trainer after class, right after she talked to Pluto's owner about what she had meant about "connecting" with Jake.  Apparently she told the trainer that he did not growl but only lunged at Jake... completely left out the part that he did bite.  We quickly cleared this up and told her what really happened and she seems quite concerned.  So we will see what the trainer does now as during that first class she was unaware of the full situation.  I am going to email the trainer that I really want him to be in a muzzle.  In the last class, other owners whose dogs weren't even attacked threatened to drop the class if he stayed just to show you how uneasy it makes everyone feel.  Our classes are outside so there is plenty of room to spread out, and I really don't feel like I should have to leave the class that works best for my schedule with a trainer whom I like because her dog is the issue, but I don't want to be a pain since I've been in that situation myself and know how it feels... that's why I really can't understand why she doesn't use the muzzle!!!!

[F, Calla & Luca]

Great points.

[Christine & Shelby]

I agree talk to the trainer and let her know what happened.  Any good trainer would listen to history and require a muzzle or one on one training before allowing Pluto into a regular class.  Perhaps a special class for dogs with aggression issues is in order.  I know the training facility where I took Shelby has one and one day one of the owners tried to come in with their dog, but Shelby was still in the room.  The trainer asked them to stay outside... and then she told me that the next class was dogs w/ aggression issues and had me leave the training facility a different way so the dogs wouldn't meet/greet.

[Adina P]

That's extremely frustrating!
The trainers who subscribe to the method I subscribe to never, ever turn down a single dog.  They will train dogs worse than Pluto -- however they are supremely cautious and take measures to ensure not a single dog or person gets hurt.  I think the trainer must be able to have that much control over the class to ensure that NO person or dog is ever injured.  If the trainer won't do what's needed and doesn't seem to have that level of control and won't take that level of control then you might need to find another class.  Have you spoken with the trainer?  At least put her on the spot, privately.

[Tina, Clover, Plus 5 More]

While it's great that you understand the need for an aggressive dog to get training.  IMO it is not worth the risk of Jake being seriously injured or worse.  Even though the trainer is great, allowing an aggressive dog to continue in a group situation without using any precautions (muzzle) to control a attack.  Is just plain stupidity.

[Richard Crowe]

The owner is irresponsible, the trainer is irresponsible and I am afraid you have to share a portion of the blame.

 

The problem with many obedience classes is that they have dogs which are unruly and vicious.  If a dog is known not to "get along with other dogs".  That dog should have private obedience lessons, not be in a group.

 

Both the owner and the trainer should have been attentive to the agressive dog's body language.  One thing that I learned in Holly's therapy dog bootcamp is not to let two strange dogs lock eyes on one another.  We were required to break that eye contact if it began.  I can see this when Holly and Sophie, our foster Labradoodle are play sparring.  They will lock eyes and wait for the other one to make a move.  I allow this because I know that the result will be a fun wrestle, not a fight.  However, when they first met, I would not allow their eyes to lock.

 

I am sure that you signed some type of contract which absolved the training facility from legal blame. However, I definitely would not have kept my dog in that class any more than I would keep my child in a class taught by a child molester.  I would have demanded my money back or the tuition transferred to a later class.

 

I have had a dog attacked by a pit bull and I got my hand pretty badly chewed up in the attack.  I have to admit that I don't like that breed of dog. I have never seen such singularity or purpose as that pitbull in the attack.  I was wearing military boots and kicked the pitbull so long and so hard than I was bruised from my toe to my shin.  The pit neverlet go and did not let go until I grabbed for its collar.  It turned and opened my hand but I had the collar ans spun as fast as I could finally crashing the pit into a garage door.  It was dazed for a second but then came back for ma and my dog.  Luckily my car door was open and I got both the dog and myself inside.  I was wearing a pair of jeans and my car keys were in my fromt pocket.  The pitbull was trying to attack through the window and I was having problems getting the keys out with my lacerated hand.  I don't know how long the episode took but I brough my Springer Spaniel to the vet and the vet actually gave me first aid for my hand because it was so badly mauled.

 

It is politically correct to say that there is nothing inherently vicious about pitbulls and that it is just the way the dog is treated/trained that makes them prone to attack.  IMO, that statement is mularky!

 

We have absolutely no problems accepting that dogs like Border Collies have an inherent urge to herd and that Labradors have an inherent urge to retrieve.  That is why you don't see Boxers in herding competitions or people using Maltese to retrieve game.  That said, when is the last time you heard about a dog fighting ring using Golden Retrievers?