first seizure since arriving here

[Lynn Stoops]

Our new Labradoodle finally arrived about 3 weeks ago ~ he is from a breeder in Canada and he was purchased as a puppy by a family in MO. He had a couple of very minor seizures while living with his first family (April 2011 and July 2011)and they did not want to "deal with it". He turned a year old in May 2011 ~ he is still a young doodle.

We thought things seemed great ~ no signs of seizures since he arrived here until last night. He started having seizures at 3:00 AM between 3:00 - 4:30 AM he had 3 major seizures and then he seemed OK very exhausted but responsive and hungry. Then at 7:15 AM he had 2 more slightly less severe seizures they lasted until 7:35 AM. He was exhausted and rested until 10:15 AM and then he had another 2 very severe seizures.

We got him to our veterinarian after the last seizure (11:10 AM) ~ they have him on an IV drip with phenobarbital and gave him a shot of valium. He was still unresponsive when we left (12:25 PM). The vet is thinking that he will be there a couple of days and then they will send him home with phenobarbital and valium (just in case).

His original owners did blood work in April and all his levels were fine and they are running more blood work this afternoon. What we noticed “pre-seizure” was frantic pacing and chasing/running around the house like he was chasing something and then he would start to pant and become more frantic this lasted about 20-25 minutes before the first convulsion/seizure ~ is this normal? Was there anything we could do at this point to stop the progression of a full seizure/convulsion? We did apply ice packs to his back hind area during the seizure/convulsion.

What questions should we be asking the vet? He is 56 pounds ~ any idea what dosage of phenobarbital will he need? Should I start him on Milk Thistle as soon as we get him back home to prevent any liver damage? I had him on Taurine and Salmon Oil.

What should we expect to see when starting the phenobarbital? How long does that take to become effective?

Sorry for this long message and so many questions. I thought we were prepared with reading, studying talking with a specialist ~ however when it is happening in your living room with your dog you are not prepared...especially the first time.

Thanks,
Lynn

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Lynn, I know some of the other members with experience is this will chime in here with help and advice for you. I just wanted to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for adopting this sweet boy.

[Lynn Stoops]

Good morning Karen

I have a food question for you ~ having Luigi on the phenobarbital his appetite will be increasing should we look at another food other then Orijen that would help keep him feeling full but not adding too many additional calories? Or should we try adding in green beans, carrots, sweet potato for extra "bulk"?

Also, I had him and our other doodles on salmon oil but that was causing very soft poop ~ so I switched our other doodles to EPO and that is working great however I don't want Luigi on EPO is there other supplements I can could try? I know adding the fish/salmon oil is a great supplement for dogs with seizures.

I also need to look at Orijen (adult) and see if there is rosemary in it ~ that might be a trigger for Luigi's seizures.

Thanks!
Lynn ( a very tired doodle mom)

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

EPO is contraindicated in dogs with seizure disorders, so Luigi definitely shouldn't get it. JD had the same problem with fish oil capsules, loose poops. I will have to do some research to see what other forms of beneficial EFAs are available. One question, were you giving the salmon oil straight, or was it in capsule form? It's possible that Luigi might tolerate one form better than another.

I would not switch from Orijen if it's working well for Luigi, as it has the best EFA ratios of any dog food I have seen. You could try supplementing with the green beans, etc., that will help fill him up without adding calories. Hopefully he will enjoy them. Just make sure that you use cooked veggies, not raw, and that they are sodium free. I had a foster who needed to lose weight, and I found that canned sodium free green beans are widely available, at Walmart, target, grocery stores, etc.

But if rosemary is a problem, there is a teensy, infinitesimal amount in Orijen. It's the very last ingredient listed before the vitamins on the Adult formula.

 

 

[Lynn Stoops]

Thanks I knew you would know the answers!  I tried the capsules I was using salmon oil straight and it was no problem I might go back and order a bottle of salmon oil.

 

I can't believe Orijen has a tiny bit of rosemary I don't want to take chances with Luigi ~ I did a quick search and it looks like Fromm (grain free) does not have rosemary I might try that for Luigi my other doodles did not like Fromm????  Or I might have to home cook for Luigi too many decisions for a tired brain!

 

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Taste of the Wild has no rosemary, I checked two of the adult formulas, and all of their formulas are grain-free. Most dogs like it and do well with it. The fatty acid balance is not as good as I would like, but if you can supplement with the straight salmon oil, that would be perfect.

There are also some dehydrated raw products that have worked well for many FG members. But you should rest right now, we can talk about some food alternatives any time. Hang in there!

[Lynn Stoops]

Hi Karen

 

I am more awake today ~ thanks to Luigi doing much better.  I am looking at either TOTW or Fromm for Luigi is there one you would suggest over the other one?  I will be adding salmon oil to the kibble and doing some home cooking for him but I want him on some good kibble also so when we have to leave him (which is scary to think about!) he can eat the kibble.

 

Thanks!

Lynn

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

There are two grain-free formulas in the Fromm Four Star line which I would recommend you try, the Beef Frittata and the Surf & Turf. Neither one contains rosemary, and they have a better fatty acid balance than the TOTW formulas.

 If you alternate between the two, Luigi will also get a nice balance of various proteins, and most dogs love these foods and do well with them.

You can expect a few days of loose poops when you make the switch.

[Lynn Stoops]

Thanks!  I am going to order the food now.  I really appreciate all your help!

 

[Rae]

Hi, I'm so very sorry to hear about your dood and his seizures. Our Goldendoodle has both seizures and Addison's disease, so I totally understand how hard this is on everyone. We started Bella on just the Phenobarbital and were told it would probably take at least two weeks before we'd see much change. We ended up increasing her dose several times. We added Potassium Bromide about 6-7 months later since the Pheno wasn't enough without going to a much higher dose. since she has to take daily doses of Prednisone for her Addison's we were/are concerned about her liver. We have been giving her Milk Thistle almost from the beginning of her seizures. We also have Rescue Remedy in every room so she gets that at the first pre-seizure behaviors. We also "try" to hold her, do T-Touch, and anything we can to clam her down. Immediately after the seizures she gets 2-4 spoonfuls of Haagen-Dazs five vanilla bean ice cream (very high in fat which is what you want). Bella is always extremely hungry after her seizures so she gets several small feelings as soon as possible. We have the added complication that Bella goes completely blind for 2-3 hours immediately following the seizures. This really scares her (and breaks our hearts watching her walk into walls, etc) so we try to confine her to a small safe area. She is also extremely hot after the seizures so she wants to be outside or someplace cool/cold. It's EXTREMELY important that your dog gets the Pheno exactly every 12 hours. We have alarm clocks set and make sure we are ALWAYS home at the times she needs her Pheno. Even 10-15 minutes late can bring on a seizure.


I hope some of this helps. Now for the REALLY good news! Now that we have her Meds right (it took some time to get here), she hasn't had a GM Seizure in nearly a year! Take care of yourselves so you can care for your doodle. they are so worth all the work and worry.

[Debbie and Toby]

I am very sorry that he is going through this.  First, I would like to suggest that you keep a journal, documenting everything, before and after the seizures. Also, if at all possible, try to time the seizures. This information will be extremely helpful for your vet to treat him properly.  Toby acts disoriented, nervous, and paces directly before a seizure. He has clusters and almost all of his seizures have been grand mals. Sometimes we only have about a minute warning, and there have been times that we see the symptoms about an hour before the seizure. Once we notice the "pre-seizure" symptoms, we start the valium. I would follow the care and recommendations of your vet. I do not know about the Milk Thistle, but I do know it takes some time to reach therapeutic levels with Phenobarb. Toby is also on Potassium Bromide. I agree with all the advice that Rae has given. This web site  http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ also has some information that may be helpful. I hope everything goes well with the treatment plan. It may take some time to get a good balance of meds, but it is so worth it.  Keep us posted. Doodle hugs to all of you.

[AndySharon BoomerShaynaMariner]

 

Lynn -

 

We also adopted a dog with a seizure disorder.  I know how scary it is to see them having a seizure. 

 

I'm sure you have read through the posts in this group (if you haven't please do).

 

Your vet may be giving your Doodle a "loading" dose of phenobarb.  This is done to bring the levels of the medication quickly upto a theurapeutic (sp?) level.  I would think that it should start being effective quickly.  It may take a while before they get the right dosage.  There is a delicate balance between controlling the seizures and the sedating effects of the medication.  We never used Milk Thistle but I don't see the harm - ask your vet.

 

Side effects include extreme thirst - make sure he always has fresh water, lethargy and weakness in his hind quarter.  Some of these will lessen with time. 

 

In most cases the lab tests are not going to be able to pinpoint a reason for the seizures. It may be genetic.  There was also some recent information that many times the seizures are from a unknown head trauma.  Unless the labs and other tests pinpoint a reason, the treatment is usually anti seizure medications. 

 

Please keep us posted, we are here for you.

 

You can also PM me.

 

Andy

 

[Cindy M, Zachary & the Frenchies]

Lynn, I also have a dog with seizure disorder (not my doodle). Bruno's is idiopathic, they don't know why he has them, it is not a typical genetic fault in his breed. He has had 4 grand mal seizures that I am aware of. He seemed a bit "off" and then seizes, with  complete loss of bowel and bladder. He is then very lethargic for about an hour and then himself. Bruno is very well controlled on Phenobarb. He has had only one seizure since starting on the meds 4 years ago and he is not sensitive to the dose timing as some other dogs are. I've missed doses and once missed a day, and he was okay. As others have written, some dogs could not tolerate this deviation from their med schedule.  Although we did quite a bit of testing the first year, we now do a general blood test with a liver panel and a phenobarb level once a year. I noticed no change in his personality from before to after the seizures and from before to after the meds. He is a typical silly french bulldog.  Good luck to you and it is a wonderful thing that you did giving this dog a second chance - they can live a great life with seizure disorders.