Labradoodle & Goldendoodle Forum
Camus is developing fears, one atop another -- Afraid of the dark, people, his collar, next?
I adopted Camus almost 2 months ago and recently he has begun to be afraid of walking in the dark, then he began to fear people, now he is afraid of his collar. One other recent behavior is he no longer likes anyone to touch his head. He seems to be developing one fear atop another. I still take him out for an evening walk, but keep it a short utility walk. I tried switching from a collar to the easy walk harness, but by the third day he was exhibiting a reaction to the harness. His fear of people is most troubling. I am taking him to work at least once a week to help work with socialization, so far no change, however he does appear to be more comfortable with women. The last event is that he almost got into a dog fight with a pitbull mix at the dog park. I took him to the vet today, wanting to rule out any biological issues. He examined Camus and while talking to me he was, unbeknownst to me, observing Camus. Camus is healthy, his coat is good (it has actually gotten longer), as is his weight (he now weighs 68 lbs), however he is showing signs of being an allergic dog and is hyper vigilant, aware of everything - his head constantly turning and twitching, but as Dr. Nagle said – not in a happy way. He also licks his paws to the point that they turn pink, which could be allergies or OCD. He is on a grain free lamb diet that he likes and so far it agrees with him. I also give him fish oil and all of his treats are grain free. He is ~ 14 months old. Tomorrow I am starting him on Clomipramine, which I hope will help. With me he is happy, playful (albeit somewhat rough at times, which we are working on) cuddily and clingy. The clingy part I think is a Doodle trait, which I find endearing. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jacquie Yorke (DRC) on
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Hey Christine.....Did the vet check his thyroid?....I ask because I just went through this with Blake..Very similar changes in behavior almost overnight.....Normally very easy going, calm, the FRIENDLIEST most CONFIDENT happy-go-lucky little guy in the world, he suddenly became very aloof, depressed, anxious in unfamiliar surroundings and situations....He developed fears (some of which were WIERD) that he never and I mean NEVER had before....He became highly protective of me and HIGHLY dog aggressive.....
A blood test revealed that he had ZERO THYROID FUNCTION.....I had to beg my vet for the test so be prepared to be insistent.
We have been seeing a DRAMATIC increase in hypo-thyroidism (low thyroid function) in these dogs and dramatic behavior changes such as aggression, anxiety and fearfulness are definite symptoms of this condition......I planned on starting a discussion on this phenomenon with extensive clinical backup and stats BTW for awhile but have not had a minute to do so.
In the meantime, not a day goes by without someone posting in the forums about similar behavior changes in their doodles. We ALWAYS recommend a trip to the vet and general health exams FIRST (thyroid testing at the TOP of the list) before assuming the behavior changes are a training issue......
In many of these cases, upon testing it was discovered that these dogs are suffering from hypo-thyroidism with hormone levels being low to nonexistent.
Blake has been on .3 milligrams of Levothyroxine twice a day for close to a month now....There was an IMMEDIATE difference in his behavior....I’m talking within DAYS of his taking the meds....He is back to being his old, normal goofy, happy, lovable self ...The fears and the aggression have subsided....$25 every three months.....That’s all that it costs......
Let’s get Camus tested.....
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Permalink Reply by Christine & Camus on
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Wow Jacquie,
The reason I took Camus to the vet was to have his thyroid tested! But my vet said he was not showing the symptoms of a low thyroid, and suggested the Clomipramine. If it does not work for him - I am going to ask again to run the thyroid test and, if need be, I'll beg too! I have a Hashimoto disease, the name sounds exotic, but it is just an autoimmune form of a thyroid disease. And I remember what I was like before taking synthroid; without it I would be nonfunctional. Now, thanks to your post, I have more information for the vet to help convince him to run the blood work on Camus. BTW - how old is Blake?
It is really difficult for me to see these changes in Camus. One way or another I am going to help him get back to his happy-go-lucky self!
Thank you
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Christine,
I will talk to your vet if you need back-up.....I would call him today and absolutely INSIST that this test be done.
Camus most certainly IS displaying symptoms of hypothyroidism as they present in these dogs......Tell your vet that we have plenty of stats that indicate that doodles for whatever reason seem to be prone to this disorder.
You have to remind your vet that doodles are a relatively new breed mix. Poodles, labs and goldren retrievers can all be prone to thyroid disorder.
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Blake is going to be 4 in January but my vet suspects that he has been suffering with this since puberty....
In fact there is strong evidence that his IBS and strange eating habits are directly related to his lack of thyroid hormone....
Prior to our discovery he would sometimes go days without eating and pooping. He has always had a basal temperature that was on the low side, gas and compromised peristalsis. Poor little guy basically lived on antacids, Imodium and Metronidazole.
His digestion and stools have been PERFECT since he is on the thyroid meds. Formally disinterested in food and unimpressed with treats he has become a twice a day eater and now pesters me for his meals.
I am only sorry that I didn't insisit on doing thyroid testing sooner....
My vet told me later that had I not insisted he be tested Blake would have become more and more aggressive, fearful and anxious. His organs would have started to shut down and cease to function alltogether and by that time no amount of hormone replacement would have made a difference. He would have been beyond help.
Basically, Blake would not have survived another 6 months if we didn't catch it when we did.
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Hello everyone and thank you for the support.
Jacquie, I just got off the phone with the vet; Camus is going in tomorrow for a blood draw! The Clomipramine does not appear to agree with Camus, either that or there is some other cause for his current state. So I will feel much better after running the bloodwork to rule out any underlying conditions. Since I started him on the medication he has stopped eating, which I could understand given it does upset his stomach, but he also stopped drinking water. Not a drop. This is not a known reaction to the medication, but Dr. Nagle said it could be an idiosyncratic reaction and that I should stop the med immediately. Hopefully he will feel better and at least start to drink some water. I'll write again as soon as I have the results of his bloodwork. - C
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Jacquie, I am so glad you alerted me to the possibility of thyroid problems. Despite Camus's thyroid test coming back within normal limits I continued to think it was not functioning properly. After months of trying to get his coat back to normal and looking for something that would really help him with his fear issues, I had a full thyroid panel done and there is a possibility he is sub-clinical hypothyroid! Of course no medication was prescribed so I did what I usually do and resorted to the internet. I found out that kelp supports thyroid function and decided to give it to him. The changes are nothing short of miraculous. His coat has improved, so much so that many have asked what I was doing/giving him. And, he is much happier. He literally bouces with joy. More remarks from many about what a happy dog he is. He is more relaxed and is beginning to let people touch him (even men). No more problems with putting on his collar either. His coat is fuller, the bald spots have begun to fill in, and his energy level is up. Still room for improvement, but I only started giving him the kelp about three weeks ago. Thank you for the heads up, from me and from a very happy Camus!
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BTW - skin disorders and obsessive behavior such as licking in conjunction with the other behavior changes are also symptoms of low thyroid function.........
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Permalink Reply by Lesley, Wellington & Bingley on
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I can only agree with Jacquie and advise a thyroid test at the vets to rule out Hypothyroidism before anything else. Other than that you can help Camus adjust to stressfull situations by remaining calm yourself and above all - not trying to sooth/cuddle or reassure him when he is showing signs of fear. This would seem like the natural thing to do - however it would encourage his fearful responses.
Also - has your vet reccommended a DAP collar? A Dog Appeasing Pheremone collar (DAP) mimics the pheremones given off by a bitch when she is nursing her pups. It is reassuring and has a calming effect which can really help insecure dogs. In the UK it costs around £17 (roughly $27) and you would need to change it each month.
You can also have a DAP diffuser in the home - but obviousely this would not work for him when he is out and about.
This would certainly help him whilst you are getting him through this juvenile stage where he is sensitive to new things anyway, and would not need to be a permanent expense. I have used one on our elderly Tibetan Terrier and cannot begin to describe the difference it has made to her.
This combined with a commitment to spend time on socialising Camus and acting as a true leader in scary situations will help him gain confidence. The vet check however would be a great start to rule out any thyroid issue that could be exacerbating his anxiety.
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Hi Lesley,
Thank you for reminding me of the DAP products. I used the diffuser to help Nietzsche with his separation anxiety and it really helped. Without it he was afraid to leave my side, with it he became confident enough to let me leave the room for a few minutes and even go out on the patio by himself (as long as he knew where I was).
I don't know why I didn't think of trying it with Camus, but I am going to order some today.
Thanks.
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Permalink Reply by Kaytlin and Cooper on
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Phereomone collars are fantastic - we sell them for about $20 here in Canada - I used one recently for my cat (infact she is wearing it now). We moved 3 weeks ago and I was worried one of my 2 cats would not adjust well. They are both rescue cats (I got them at 3 months old), sisters, but one is nervous and scared of strangers, especially men. Last time we moved she hid INSIDE the duvet cover for over a week. This time, she was out exploring within minutes of her kennel door opening! It lasts 3 months. http://www.terrificpets.com/pet_supplies/dog/calming-aids/109324.asp
Theres also something called a Thunder Shirt, which we sell alot of and seems to work well for most dogs with anxiety http://www.thundershirt.com/
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Permalink Reply by Joanne ~ Spud* on
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Geesh, I had to check the name on the top of this discussion to make sure I did not write this myself. I too, have a dog exactly like you describe. I agree with Jacquie to have the dog tested for thyroid. I have not tried the pheromone collar as Lesley suggested but I hear many use these and are satisfied with the results.
I used to look at my girl and my heart broke. Nothing I could do would alleviate her fear. No one ( including a dog ) should be made to live with fears of being in a war zone. As months moved along she would only cower on the floor and shake. She would hold her urine for days if spooked in the yard. She would crawl down the driveway when we tried to walk her. We worked really hard but the situation became worse. Everyone told me she would get better. Give it time. As time went on she became worse. She played with no toys, liked no one, and ran from a leaf or a paper bag. Like the world would rape her at any minute. I've lived with this fear. It is not worth living this way.
We began Clomipramine twice a day a few months ago along with obedience training. This has been a LIFESAVER. My only regrets, we did not do this sooner.
My husband was not for the medication --as you will find, many are not for medicating dogs. In our home we decided to use the medication and in one month sit down and discuss it again. The results were so dramatic he now says, he never said he did not want to do this, and he is the one who makes sure she has it on time each day.
It took a month to begin to notice a change. In two months our girl became a JOY :) It is a wonderful thing to see a dog enjoying life. Playing with other dogs. Wagging a tail. Now a leaf is something to go investigate.
We found a trainer who would work with us. Most did not want to help us. We have gone on with her training and last month she PASSED HER CGC. Something we never thought possible.
Please keep me informed of how this is going. This issue is dear to my heart and I am going through the same thing. Seek out a trainer too. I'm hoping things will get better as they have for us.
Please join us in the Anxiety and Mental Health Issues Group here on DK. We have some other things in this group we post that help our dogs relax. Join us. Good Luck
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Joanne,
Your little girl sure had a rough time, I am glad to hear she is better! It is good to know that if it is not a thyroid issue that the Clomipramine actually works. And I will join the Anxiety and Mental Health Issues group.
Thank you for sharing your story, as I mentioned above I'll do whatever it takes to help Camus.
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