How much is too much itching/scratching/biting self?UPDATE

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Our new puppy, now about 17 weeks old has been itching and scratching so much that it's driving her and us crazy.  I just held up my camera to wait for her to start scratching and I didn;t have to wait 1 minutes between one scratch to the other. The only time she isn't is when she is asleep. And then I hear her during the night.

She is on Fromm, and I know it is rare that it could be food, but she gets yogurt also. I just started giving EPO and Fish Oil this weekend. She is bathed often, because she digs, but I went from baby shampoo to a non-soap oatmeal shampoo that I use on Murphy (who hardly has ever been an itchy doggie)

This morning I rinsed her in 50/50 White Vinegar and water also. She just kept licking that. I left it on without rinsing. Am I supposed to rinse?

This isn't necessarily a change from when we got her at 10 weeks old, just getting to be more annoying as it is so frequent. No red or hot spots, no particular area, just all over her body from paws to tail and everywhere in between. This is her usual pose!

 

I AM HAPPY TO REPORT A MAJOR INPROVEMENT IN BELLA'S SCRATCHING. FOR ANYONE WHO IS HAVING THIS PROBLEM I WILL TELL YOU WHAT I DID:

1. I washed her in the Tropiclean Oatmeal Shampoo. Got it at Petco. Followed directions and sudz'd her up and massaged in for 7-8 min. This helped about 50% right away.

2. I used a spray leave-in called:Earthbath, Tea Tree Oil formula and again followed directions and used after her bath and occassionally afterward. This seems to cut down the scratching about another 20-30%

3. I did not bathe her again for 3 weeks.

4. Added Fish Oil capsules to her EPO capsules she recieved daily. This probably has finally kicked in and with all the above has limited her scratching to maybe 3-4 times a day rather than 3-4 every 10 minutes all day.

 

She is getting baths again and has had 2 in the past 2 weeks. Using the Tropiclean. It is a soapless shampoo and my Vet recommended soapless when I had asked her about the itching.

 

So she is much happier and so are we. I hope this will help someone else. Thanks again for all your advise with this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't know if this was for the Grooming, Food or Medical Group.

 

Monday update: she seems about 50% better with the good shampoo and spray. At least she can play and be more normal without stopping every 2 minutes to itch!!!  Now just wait it out and see if less frequent bathing makes it better. Let's hope, that's an easy fix.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Give the EPO and fish oil a week or two; you may see some results. The switch to the oatmeal shampoo should help, too. But leave the lather on for five or ten minutes before rinsing. Vinegar may be beneficial for yeasts, but that's it. If this isn't an all over yeast infection, which I doubt it is, I wouldn't bother with the vinegar. But if you want to use it, rinse it off if it makes her lick herself. You do not want them licking or biting themselves, the next step after that gets going is a skin infection. Use a cool dryer setting or let her air dry- no hot dryers.
Fromm is a great food, but if there is any suspicion of food allergies (and you're right, it would be unlikely at her age, and she'd have to have been eating the same formula since she started solid foods to have developed an allergy by this age), try only using the grain-free formulas and see if that makes a difference. It can take 3-4 months of a food elimination trial to see results, though.
To answer the question posed in the title of this discussion, any regular itching/scratching/biting of self is too much. To give you a guideline, Jackdoodle has very severe allergies. If he scratches himself once a week, it's unusual. If he was licking, scratching or biting himself on a daily basis, even once a day, I'd be at the specialist's office getting his antigens adjusted.

[Adina P]

Hey Karen, regarding you being alarmed if Jack scratches once a week...is this JUST because he has atopy or would you be alarmed anyway? Just asking because *I* scratch myself more than once a week ;-)...if a dog without atopy can't scratch themselves more than that...well it just seems like a very high standard. Life is itchy. But I'm assuming you meant what you said MERELY because of Jack's condition and his treatment. Did you?

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

It's because of his allergies, but also because now that his allergy symptoms are under control, I see that itching, scratching, and biting himself are not normal for him when he's not in discomfort. I don't get alarmed if he scratches once in a while, but i do notice it, that's how unusual it is now.
Of course a little scratch here or there is normal for every dog, and every person. But licking and biting themselves on a daily basis is not. And continuous scratching is not normal, either. I scratch myself probably every day, too, at some point. But it's a momentary thing. If I had a continuous itch soemwhere that made me want to scratch it repeatedly, I'd do something about that. And the same for my dogs.

[Adina P]

Sounds like Boca! From the day she got here at approx 16 weeks she was constantly scratching. What eventually worked for us is (in addition to the fish oil which on its own made no difference) was a certain Rx antihistamine and/or Rx shampoo. I really don't know WHICH of the two did it, but I think it was the Rx antihistamine. But we also had to use antibiotics for about 6 weeks to completely get rid of a mild staph infection that developed along with the scratching. She's been off of the antihistamine for a while now and has started being itchy again (not anywhere like at first though) so I may start that again this week.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Adina, what antihistamine did/do you use for Boca? Ned's itching/scratching is periodic. He will go months with basically no scratching and then have weeks of scratching. Benedryl did not help. We also tried generic Clariton which I do think helps.

[Adina P]

I think it is generic chlor-trimeton.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Adina, Did you have to get a prescription or order by the Vet? I would like to try some things on my own before taking her to the Vet. At least I can then not buy all the stuff they will recommend at 10 x the cost. Like their "special" shampoo or their "special" food, which as you know I wouldn;t be buying anyway, but they still try to sell it.

I had to head out now to do some errands so I will look for generic chlor-trimeton. Gotta help the poor little thing get some rest.
Thanks

[Adina P]

I did get an Rx...I'm really NOT sure why other than it was Rx and perhaps the vet thought we needed a dosage unavailable OTC??? But it is, so who knows, it was not expensive though.
In any case, my vet wasn't about to do anything to her diet, thank goodness. She felt that was a step for much later. The 'special' shampoo I was given is KetoChlor (by Virbac Animal Health) and contains chlorhexidine, gluconate, and ketoconazole. Though I can't really say if it was useful at all. I think the antihistamine made the biggest difference.

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Thank you.

[Camilla and Darwin]

Darwin is a pretty itchy dood. He used to constantly scratch, rub his face and bite his paws. One EPO tablet a day fixed that right up, he doesn't do it nearly as much. The exception is when he gets really excited, and he runs around rubbing his face on things and sneezing. Still haven't figured that one out...

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

Cooper would chew quite a bit when she was younger. Never found a reason. She will still scratch/chew occasionally, but again, for no reason. Sometimes it alerts me to a mat forming....

Allergies are pretty rare at such a young age, she is on a good food, but if you wanted to, you could try cutting out wheat, chicken, beef, corn, and other grains from food and treats.

Look for a shampoo that lists the ingredients - use only 100% natural - if you dont know what an ingredient is, chances are its chemical. Tropiclean and EarthBath are my favourites

Giving her too many baths could be making her skin dry, so maybe use a spray on, leave in spritz - this will help repel dirt and keep her fresh smelling in between baths (again Tropiclean and EarthBath have these). I bathe Cooper about once every 3 months

[Christine & Camus]

Camus was itching and scratching and his coat started to fall out! He was given an injection, which helped immediately and is now on a course of prednisone and antihisamine. I also used an oatmeal conditioner (did not bathe him, just used the conditioner). I left it on him for ~ 10 minutes, then rinsed it out. He is no longer scratching and biting himself and his coat is slowly beginning to fill in. Allergies was the diagnosis.