Vets thoughts on Spaying a large breed pup

[Chelsea and Bailey]

So I've recently had a couple discussions on things my vet has told me (aka, struvite stones and changing foods) and there was one more that I wanted to research before posting and getting an opinion. At our last vet appt I asked when to bring Bailey in to get spayed (she is 12 1/2 weeks now and 22 Ibs!!). The vet replied that with a large breed dog (which I guess is what she will be) they suggest 9-10 months.  Honestly, I was a bit shocked as I had read lots of discussions and posts on here about when everyone had their pups spayed/neutered.  Sooo I decided I would check into it before deciding to go with her suggestion or pick another vet. 

 

I found this article, which is basically a literature review on many different studies on when to spay/neuter.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInD...

 

It was interesting and the main points that I took from it where:

-Spaying before physically mature pre-disposes dogs to many unnecessary health risks.

-Spaying before 1 yr of age (or physical maturity) can significantly increase osteosarcoma (bone cancer) which is common in large breeds and has a poor prognosis - this also went along the lines of if spayed too soon it can mess up the way the bones grow, thus leading them to grow to longer creating stress on joints and tissues.

-Spay/neuter before 5 1/2 mo is assoc. with 70% increase age-adjusted risk of hip dysplasia then those spayed after the age

-dogs spayed under 5 1/2 mo were 2.76x more likely to develop chronic UTI's then those after- Spaying also contributing to an incidence rate of 4-20% of spay incontinence (difference in breed, size, age, etc). Spayed females have an increased risk of recessed vulva, vaginal dermatitis, vaginitis and UTI's if done before puberty.

 

So as I am left with this knowledge I am wondering what other thoughts are... I personally did not want to wait until 10mo of age for her to be spayed as for 1) it is more painful for them, 2) costs more, 3) can cause issues when going for walks or dog park...

These findings really are compelling though, especially when Bailey has already had UTI trouble.

Any thoughts comments would be appreciated!

[F, Calla & Luca]

You raise many interesting points. We have had numerous discussions on this topic, too. I think there is no definitive answer. My dogs are ALDs and most of them are spayed/neutered very young, mine included. I cannot speak, even in my small sample of two, about long term health consequences since the oldest is just under three. They have been thankfully very healthy though to date. There are pros and cons to this argument but only you can decide what to do. I encourage you to search for and read some of the past discussions.

[Adina P]

I'm one of the weirdos who also questions early spaying/neutering but also realize that as a general recommendation...it is probably ideal for most people to spay/neuter before puberty for population control. I've read 'hints' of possible affect on brain development (though who knows how much truth there is to that or how significant an effect it would have) and possible increase in obesity.  And one trainer I know who believes in keeping dogs intact if owners can be responsible about it also thinks that dogs who are neutered before puberty tend to have 'puppy brains' forever--and by that I gather she means they don't really 'grow up' into mature dogs and act like pups for much longer.

 

Personally, if I ever have another male dog in the future, depending on my life at the time...I will consider holding off on neutering.  The 'depending on my life at the time' part has to do with how busy I am.  If I have tons of time for dog training then I'm confident I could train a male dog well enough to avoid problem 'male' behaviors. I do NOT think I'd keep a female intact, though, unless I was breeding.  Just NOT interested in the whole cycle thing.  Blech.

 

Along with the increased risk I think it's good to consider the total risk.  Does it go from 1% risk to 3% risk or is it a change from 10% to 30%...important difference.  I don't consider anyone irresponsible for keeping their dog intact a bit longer if they are careful and consider all sides of the issue and are PREPARED to do everything in their power to prevent an oops pregnancy.  I think that's the main fear from anyone who opposes waiting...fear of an owner slipping and inadvertently allowing their dog to get pregnant or impregnate another dog.

 

Anyway, I think MOST people should spay/neuter before puberty...but I think there are people who can handle keeping an intact dog just fine (and that's not very many people who can).

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

This is yet another thing where Vets seem to really differ in their opinion.  My Vet is a very strong proponent of early spay/neuter, and had no concerns about the fact that Guinness was neutered before we brought him home.

[Chelsea and Bailey]

Great points brought up, when thinking about it many friends of ours have larger breed dogs and got them spayed/neutered at 6mo ish. One thing I am not sure about though is alot of the doods on here are mini/mediums and the vet was just fine with those types being done early, and from what I can tell those are often the ones being spayed before being sent home. I just wish there was some consistency!

[cheryl & oliver]

Caitlin, Oliver was a little older then Albus, maybe closer to 6 mos.  My vet was fine wit that too.  He doesn't like them done too early, but 5 1/2 to 6 mos. is fine with him.  And I too in the future if I get another dog will do the same thing..

[Robyn, Greg and Snickers]

Out vet recommended neutering anytime after 6mths Snickers was about 6.5 mths when we did it. I have always wondered if it stunted his growth a little as the breeder said he would 60-65 lbs and he has never gotten over 52. Also his dad (the standard poodle was HUGE he was really tall. So don't know if that was a factor in his final size but if that is the worst we are ok with it. 

Regarding your trainer. I think doodles have puppy brain no matter what. Our trainer said temperament is in the breed. In her opinion doodles are always looking for the party and lpoking
to have fun no matter what their age!

[Adina P]

I think dogs and people like 'fun' at all ages (different definitions of 'fun' for different people and creatures of course).  But it's hard for me to say if she's right because I haven't been around enough examples of both intact and altered dogs of similar breeds to say.  To really see if this is true, you'd have to know a large sample of adult altered and intact doodles and experience their behavior and any differences.  There is no 'doodle gene' that makes all doodles the SAME -- there is only the genes from poodles and retrievers (or whatever else a doodle may contain) and how those genes combine.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I have read the argument and facts for both sides and I am thoroughly confused about it. :-) Darwin was neutered at (I think) 5 months, because he was starting to hump other dogs. The neutering fixed that right up! he hasn't mounted another dog since. He's had no adverse affects at all that I have observed, and I do not regret my decision.

[L.M.]

Oh my goodness 9 months?!? I started a discussion on this a few weeks ago because my vet won't spay my Stella before 6 months.........but 9 or 10 months?!  Wow!  My concern was that we have a male dog (who is neutered) but is still "very interested" in Stella (who is his sister...gross... lol).  I know that I, personally, cannot deal with a dog in heat and I am praying that Stella does not go into heat before she gets spayed.  We called another vet (one of the best in NJ) and they too said 6 months, no earlier.  Stella is a standard goldendoodle and my Seamus is a male doodle who got neutered when he was 5 months.  I wonder why the males can be done earlier??

[Cindy and Olive (Ollie)]

Who is the best in NJ? :) can you inbox me? Thx!

[Linda and Murphy]

This is an article where they had three groups of dogs: neutered at 7 wks; 7 mos and intact. It looked at skeletal growth, weight gain, food intake, body fat, secondary sex characteristics, and behavioral development in 32 mixed-breed dogs.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2045340

[Nancy, Ned, Clancy, and Charlie]

Interesting article.  My male dogs have all been neutered between 4 and 6 months.  Personally, I am all for early spay/neutering for no good reason at all.  I do think that it is much easier on the dog if done while very young.