Obedience class not going so well :(

[Kerri B. & Zoey]

Little upset, but I know this is the place to come and vent, cry, receive some understanding, but also receive some tough love.  So we have been going to obedience class for about 3 weeks now.  The first class Zoey did great...paid attention, was getting "sit" right off the bat, she was a little rockstar.  Week 2 we did not fare as well.  There was a week off in between the 1st & 2nd class and it actually was a blessing, because I woke up that Monday morning & threw my back out & was laid up most of the week. A blessing, because we did not have to miss a lesson, but bad in that I probably did not do enough homework with her (it was tough enough just getting myself around and she actually wound up spending a good amount of that week with my parents).  The 2nd class went ok at first.  We worked on sits again and she did well and then began downs.  This was not as successful and she struggled to pay attention, and I struggled to keep her engaged.  After the class I stayed and spoke one on one with the instructor, more about her jumping & biting issues.  We went home and have worked a little over the week, but I know not as much as I should be (this is where the tough love comes in...I know I have to do the work to get the results).  So tonight was the 3rd class.  Since I am at work all day my parents meet me at the class with her, so it's the first chance I have to see her since the am when I leave.  She goes bonkers when she sees me, then gets excited to see all the other dogs and people.  Finally get her to settle down and class begins.  The whole time she is distracted, obstinate, pulling on the leash, jumping...I swear, I felt like I was sticking out...in a bad way.  The instructor had us working on sits and downs and was coming around to us individually.  When he got to me everything fell apart and he basically told me needed to work the sit & get that under control before working on the down.  This kinda pissed me off, cause the dog knows sit...she knew this before we started the class.  Later he had us go to another area and practice walking them with a loose lead and then working on the "wait" command.  By this point Zoey was over it, but I was able to get her to work the "wait" and she actually did pretty good.  Then at the end of class he asked me to stay after.  He is suggesting to me that I need to get a prong correctional collar and bring this to the next class.  This upsets me.  I really don't want to go this route with her and am not confident in my ability to use it right (event though he is telling me he will show me).  I left the class almost in tears about this.  I am not happy of the thought of having to use a prong collar.  Just curious to know what some of you think.  Anyone have experience with these?  Anyone think with enough practice/homework I can avoid it?  I know I need to put more time in with her, so I except my responsibility in that respect.  Just wondering if there is a way to avoid going to this extreme.  Sorry to ramble & rant, but thanks for reading.

[Heather Martinez]

I just wanted to say, don't feel too bad about not doing enough "homework" with Zoey. I used to beat myself up about that too. Teddy is my first puppy and between working and trying to spend time with my husband and handling Teddy's antics, it was a lot to deal with at first. Finally, I started incorporating training into our regular day, instead of trying to do specific training sessions. I worked on "stay" by having Teddy lie on a mat in the kitchen while I made dinner. I worked on "sit" and "down" by having him do it at appropriate times, like "sit" before going outside or out of his pen, etc. I also got Teddy an Easy Walk harness to decrease pulling. 

After Teddy's first puppy class we found a great trainer and started doing sessions in our home. It was so much better because he could deal with Teddy's exact issues. I got more out of one session with him than our entire puppy class. I would look at puppy class as more of a socialization time and time to practice.

[Kerri B. & Zoey]

Heather, I have thought about possibly doing 1 on 1 after this too.  I was under the impression that there would only be about 6 dogs in my class, but there is about twice as many as that and there are a few people that REALLY monopolize his time (which is already stretched thin IMHO).  Anyways...I am trying to take some of the pressure off myself, but commit to working with her for a min. of 20 min. a day (a little in the morning & a little at night).

[Debb, Lucy & Oscar]

Kerri, I really feel for you and understand what you're going through. I had many of the same feelings in those early puppy classes with Lucy. I really think a lot of your Zoey's 'problem' is the excitement of seeing you after a long day away. I would take Lucy to the class many times with my husband joining me there after work. Lucy would be so excited and distracted we wouldn't be able to accomplish much of anything, especially in the 1st half of class. As many others have mentioned, too, Zoey is young and easily distracted anyway. As she matures you'll find she's able to focus much more, so don't be too hard on her or yourself. Put the time in every day (5min. twice a day is all that's necessary as long as its daily) for homework, and try to have Zoey exercised before class if possible. If you can meet Zoey briefly before class for maybe 5-10 minutes I think she'd be much more settled during class. Although the classes ARE mainly for you to learn the tools needed to train outside of class, it helps immensely to have a calm, relaxed puppy in class. Don't overlook the power of High Value Treats (we call them HVP's here..lol..). Using small chunks of plain cooked chicken (if your puppy tolerates chicken well) works wonders while training. I use them for Lucy's agility training and she'll literally jump through hoops for it.

As for the prong collar suggestion that upset you so much, I can certainly relate to your reaction. Personally, I don't think its necessary given all you've said regarding the circumstances of Zoey's behavior. My suggestion is a Canny Collar (www.cannyco.us  - and you can also find them cheaper on Ebay occasionally). We had started with a Gentle Leader during the first round of puppy classes and Lucy spent most of the time rubbing her muzzle on the floor trying to get it off. Talk about distracted! We'd had her wear it for hours a day at home to try to get her use to it, and she never did. The Canny Collar doesn't bother dogs in that way to the same degree, and its made far superior to the Gentle Leader. To this day (Lucy will be 2 yrs next month) Lucy wears her Canny Collar while out and about and I ALWAYS have control no matter what the situation. Good luck, and keep us informed..

 

[Carol Brand]

But here is the thing with using gentle leaders, easy walk harnesses, canny collars etc.   Can you transition your dog out of them?  I may have started with a prong collar, but at age 2 my dog can be worked on leash and off with a simple buckle collar or heck... no collar at all.   Isn't the whole purpose of these tools to train a dog so that they can eventually be good citizens in a plain old collar on a plain old leash?  I find that people who use the halters/harnesses etc seem to be stuck with them for life.

 

Just a thought.

 

[Sandra Griffith]

Carol, I agree that halters and harnesses are management tools not training tools.  I have also found prong collars to serve the same purpose should no training be implemented in conjunction with their use.  I will use tools as an interim measure whilst my clients are in the training process.  By this I mean that they work on the loose leash walk with a plain buckle collar  every day for several short sessions (at least three 5 minute sessions daily), but when they need to go for a walk for exercise purposes whilst their dog is not fully trained they use the management tools so as not to reinforce (inadvertently of course) their dog pulling on leash until the dog's training is complete.  Provided owner compliance (ie doing the work), I have not had a problem with dogs walking on a loose lead or eventually off leash using a buckle collar.

 

[Carol Brand]

Fair enough.  I can see how a halter or harness would be used in this way.  The key obviously is to continue training with a buckle collar.  Unfortunately too many people don't follow up with training.  

I'm still not a fan of the halters and harnesses.  I hate the way the harnesses turn the dog in front of the handler and how they don't give you good control of the dog's head.  You also can't give a dog a correction with either one and I personally have found that dogs get farther in their training, faster when they know that non-compliance has a consequence.  

 

 

 

[Sandra Griffith]

Carol, you are absolutely right that many people do not follow up, and I appreciate what you are saying.  I have been fortunate to have clients that were good about executing their homework.  I do subscribe to the "nothing in life is free" doctrine.  The reward for many dogs for pulling is that they get to go to their desired destination.  Part of the training that I do does away with this reward so the consequence for the dog is to go in the opposite direction that they desire to go.  This does take time and patience as does all training to be reliable in all environments.

As so many wise people here have said, there is more than one way up the mountain.  

[Debb, Lucy & Oscar]

I give corrections with a head halter a couple different ways. I give a verbal command to let Lucy know she's not walking correctly, usually 'stay with me' , a couple short 'ah-ah's, or 'Lucy, heel'. She understands them all and responds accordingly. The other way is I simply stop walking when she gets ahead of me. She then comes back to the heel position and we start again. I don't understand how a head halter doesn't give good control of a dog's head? That is the only part of the dog's body it does have control over.

[Carol Brand]

RE head control... I was talking about the harness.  The leash is typically attached to a ring in the front or the back.  

RE correction.. When Lucy is in the halter and you tell her SIT or DOWN or STAY and she doesn't follow the direction, how do you correct her?

[Debb, Lucy & Oscar]

Simply by putting her into the position, or giving her a negative verbal cue and then putting her into the position. Lucy has learned all of her obedience with mostly positive reinforcement and minimal negative corrections. She has thrived on this kind of training. As I said, verbal cues are generally all the correction she needs, to know the action or behavior is incorrect. I have never, even when Lucy was very young, yanked on the leash to correct her.

[Adina P]

The purpose of a correction is to help the dog BE correct and to motivate the dog to do it on her own next time and skip the correction. So putting your dog back into position fulfills the 1st part but it doesn't do much to prevent her from breaking the position next time. At least that is how I view corrections....

[Carla, Lucca and Izzy]

Lucca started with the Easy Walk harness for his first year. Since then (he's now 3) he walks great with his collar. Izzy still pulled with the Easy Walk so I just put her on the prong collar for awhile (she's a year). I've walked her the past 2 nights with her regular collar and she did great. They can transition very easily. I also did this from prong to no leash with my Golden Retriever. She actually carried the leash in her mouth, unattached but that was after she was 3 years old:)

So, yes, it can happen:)