Crate/Potty Training Issues

[Tobi Brenner]

Cody is 9 weeks old and I have had him for 1.  I have had multiple adult dogs, but this is my first puppy. Forgive the length of this, but I have been a bit naive about a couple of things and am also learning as Cody is. 

I work from home and initially planned to only crate Cody at night and while I was out. I naively thought that I could manage him outside the crate during the day while I was home and working.  I was wrong.  It is too much and I cannot get anything done.  So on day 4 I started crating full time. I live in a condominium and I take him out every 2-3 hours.  My schedule is below and is basically repeated multiple times a day: 

Wake up
Outside to Potty
Back inside
Breakfast in crate (20-30min)
Back Outside to Potty
Walk/Play outside 20ish mins
Back inside and crate for next 2-3 hours

I initially didn't want to crate like this, but it is the only way I have been able to really get him on a schedule and get him going outside.  That part is going well. He doesn't have many accidents in his crate and we potty in the same spot each time. I was leaving him out of the crate for about 15mins after coming in for a walk before putting him back in, but two days in he started peeing immediately after coming in the house, I believe because he was mad at me... ;)  So I now do walk/play outside and put him in the crate immediately coming back in the house.  

I had been socializing him with the crate and if he is outside the crate he will go in and out voluntarily, especially because he now knows I treat him when he goes in there... :)  

So my questions...  He isn't really eating his food at this point. I think because he is upset/mad about being the crate. He eats treats fine, but not really much of his food, and as a result not really pooping. I think that is probably just an adjustment and he will eat when he gets hungry enough.  I don't leave the food in there.  I put it in and take it out at certain time and if he doesn't eat it, he waits until the next round. Am I wrong or should I be doing something different?  

Second, when he is in the crate when I am home, he will eventually settle down if I am still.  The minute I get up to go to the bathroom or the kitchen (where he can still see me) he starts screaming and crying like a crazed maniac. I actually think he might be a bit of a drama queen (king) as often times he will be chewing on a toy and still screeching at the top of his lungs. I completely ignore him and I try to never take him out of the crate to go out when he is screaming or crying. At night, I put a towel over the crate, but leave the front open so he can see out. When I go upstairs he freaks out. The first few nights, he howled and screamed most of the night, which I ignored, but of course didn't sleep at all. The last two nights I have been lying down on the couch where he can still see me with all the lights out until he seemingly falls asleep and then go upstairs. He does cry and scream for about 1/2 hour but then settles down and has slept for like 6-7 hours. I hope that continues 

So as I write this, I guess I recognize that I am making progress, but the screeching and screaming is such a challenge. I guess I want to know...  I am doing the right thing(s)?  Is there a way to calm him when in the crate that I am not already doing?  Is it separation anxiety or simply not wanting to be caged up?  Last but not least, how long does that typically last?  

Thanks for reading and I appreciate any insight any of you have.  I am glad to have found this site!  My Denver Doodle group pointed me to it!  

Tobi

Read more here: http://www.doodlekisses.com/group/puppymadness/forum/topic/showPrev...

[Helga, Nimbus, Sierra, Clooney]

First of all, welcome to DK! Cody is absolutely adorable!

Doodles are very much people dogs. They don't want to be away from their people. Have you considered to put the crate in your bedroom? I currently have 2 crates in there. Haha. They just like to know you're there. A  snuggle puppy might also be a consideration. You can turn on the heartbeat and your puppy will think there's a sibling in with him.

For potty training I use the Poochiebells. From day 1 I would always touch their nose or paw to the poochiebell and say "Ring the bell". Once they got the idea and rang the bell to go outside, I always rewarded them.

Crating during the day - maybe you can put baby gates around a small area (kitchen for example) and put pee pads there.

My Sierra is now 15 weeks old and ALMOST house trained. That means, she rarely has accidents anymore.

Good luck! It will get better.

[Debb, Lucy & Oscar]

Cody is a baby yet. Imagine how he must feel having been separated from his mother and litter mates only to be put in a crate in a strange home and expected to be calm. As Helga mentioned, doodles are people dogs. Cody needs your comfort and close reassurance. An option to crating might be to keep him tethered to you so he can lie by your feet while you work, and follow you into the kitchen or bathroom. If you go that route, set a timer to take him out at regular intervals (at 9 weeks, I think 2-3 hrs is far too long to wait. I would take him out every half hour when he's out of his crate. It will be disruptive, but that's just the way it goes with having a new puppy. It is exhausting the first few weeks. We've all been through it and lived to tell about it :)

Keeping the crate near your bed where you can dangle your fingers through the top if puppy stirs, is very helpful. We kept a smaller crate in the bedroom for only a few days with Lucy, before transitioning her to her downstairs crate, but with Oscar, who was much needier in the beginning, we crated him at night in our bedroom for 2 weeks. Puppies vary as to how much reassurance they need in the beginning, but just know that once a secure foundation has been set they quickly learn to adjust to flexibility. Good luck!

[Emily Lau]

Tobi I think your routine is pretty good! Perhaps I would shorten the 2-3 hour crate time to 1-2 hour :D We tether our puppy to a fixed spot (somewhere he cannot chew on things) right after we play, but before we crate him. He feels like he has a little more freedom to move (and burn off crazy energy), but if he has an accident it is VERY easy to clean up and correct.

Regarding screaming - that is so normal! Just have to stick to your routine and believe that it will get better. 9-weeks...that is still so fresh! :)  In terms of potty, most 9-week-old pup cannot control themselves at all..like..they dont even know it is coming out. :) You will feel significantly better (I promise) about everything by 3-4 months. We didn't sleep much the first 2-3 weeks either, and we were going nuts :)

HANG IN THERE you will make it!!!!!!! <3

[Diane, Hurley and Sidney]

We had Hurley in our room at night from day 1. He started sleeping on the bed with us after a Chookie of weeks and did not jump off during the night.

The bells worked great for us for potty times.

As for crating during the day. We only did it when we were not going to be home. We taught him PLACE. Starting with no more than a couple of minutes he had to stay on his doggie bed. If he came off before time he was put right back using the word PLACE. on the doggie bed could move around and play with his toys but he could not come off. I started with this training 3 times a day. Eventuality we got to an hour on the doggie bed. He liked it so much better than his crate. Hurley turns 3 next years. Place is now when he gets out of control and while we are eating for example. B

Hope some of that helps.

[Tobi Brenner]

I love the PLACE idea Diane and I am going to try that.  How old was Hurley when you started training him on PLACE?  You mentioned you started with 3 times a day.  Were you crating him the rest of the time?  Thanks for all your help. 

[Diane, Hurley and Sidney]

We started immediately. With very short periods. Start with as little as 30 seconds. If I can find the picture I'll post it, but one time Hurley sat just his butt on the doggie bed when I gave him the PLACE command. It was so hard for me to not start laughing. But I made him get completely on the doggie bed then praised him. Also I never used teats for anything.

We crated him only when gone.

We did the same thing another person suggested. We kept ER it's of his pee and poop times until we had his schedule down. Regardless at first we took him out every 2 hours, showing him the bells to ring saying excitedly 'potty potty? We always went out with him. We gave him 3-5 minutes if he did not go we brought him back in quickly as he was not allowed to play. Potty time and play time are different. Once he got the bells down he would ring them just to ring it. Initially we took him out every time and it HS did not go potty we came right back in. Then after about 15 minutes we would takf him out to play. The first 6-9 months required a lot if focus.

[Diane, Hurley and Sidney]

Sorry for the typos. But catching them.
Another thing that I tought about after reading a couple of the tespinses to your query is the bonding time. Every day I would play on the floor with H and then start getting him used to my brushing him. He loves that time. He lays on his side and I talk to him as I brush him and then roll him over and brush the other side. What is so funny is if I get a little to aggressive with the brushing his head comes up and he gives me the 'look'. He never makes a sound. Just gives me the look.

Hurley is about 53 lbs and I keep his coat long. Also, he likes to sleep on the tile in the kitchen or on the floor by the front door at night. Every morning I go lie down by him and talk to him as he wakes up. He loves if. If I am running late and don't have the time he is hurt and will ignore me most of the day. If I go to pet him he will turn his head away.

You will discover your little ones personality traits and those traits will bring many a heart warming smile to your face and into your heart.

My husband has cognitive Parkinson's Disease so Hurley is so much more than my companion. He brings so much positive energy and unconditional love just being there with us.

[Missy]

Welcome to the Doodle world!  My favorite book "The Puppy Primer" by Patricia B. McConnell and Brenda Scidmore.

I was new to the owning a dog thing. This book really helped my set a routine. I spent the first 3 months of total dog care, life was all about potty training and teaching the pup 'rules'.  So, as frustrated I was back then, I can say now at almost 2 years old, it was worth it!

We used the crate, but only for him to sleep or when I needed a break. Food and water never went in to the crate. (I see some that do)  I knew that I would have to leave him crated for long periods of times, so I started right away on crate training. I would always play with him, potty him and then put him in the crate with a puppy kong filled with peanut butter. He only got those treats during crate time. At first the times were 1 hour spurts, but as he got older, I increased the time frame. I would close the crate, assure him I would return and then walked away. Never go back when they are barking as this will train them to bark for attention.

I had paper and pen for the potty training.  All pups are different on when they are accustomed to pottying. (not all want to poo 20 min after a meal)  At first, I would take the pup out every 2 hours. IF he pee or poo, he would get a treat right there and lots of praise. (I just used his food at treats)  Then I would write the time down and whether he pee or poo. I kept my routine the same every day, and slowly I could recognize his potty patterns. For example: my pup usually poos in two different spots in the mornings. So, stay outside until this happens!!  I spent more time outside than inside those first few months. We used the potty bells and still take them with us when we travel.

Best of luck. This site is wonderful.  You can do this!! You have such a cutie and be sure to take lots of pictures as they grow sooo fast!!

[Kathryn Clark]

Congratulations on your new puppy and welcome to the world of lack of sleep and work for the next couple of months! We're just ahead of you, our is 4 months so I'm sure there is a lot of more experienced advice but this is what helped us. We followed a similar schedule as you. I'm still figuring out the trying to get work done part with him with me in my studio rather than crate so I love hearing Diane's suggestion of the word PLACE for bed. That sounds like an excellent idea.

Are you giving Cody something to do while he's in the crate? Kibble stuffed kongs sealed with peanut butter, or frozen kongs with kibble and broth worked well for us. Also, bully sticks have been a lifesaver for us as gross as they are. I know you mentioned he's not so interested in food but what if you delivered all his food as a treat rather than in a bowl. When he howls in his crate, don't go to him for at least five (or ten) minutes until he's calmed down. Which runs the risk of accidents, I know but he needs to learn you're the boss.

We still have an occasional accident but it's likely because my husband played with him and then forgot to take him outside to pee afterwards. So full potty training is likely awhile off but it will get better. Be sure to use the spray to kill the scent so he won't want to remark his territory.

At night, either have his crate next to you or have him sleep tethered to your bed with a leash on his dog bed. That's what we did from day one and it's been great. Now I just have to say "night night" really firmly and he whimpers and goes right to sleep. I swear it will get easier!

[Tobi Brenner]

Kathryn I love those Kong toys with the PB in them.  Cody loves them too!!!  ;)  And I do try and never get him from the crate while he is howling or screaming.  I can tell that is changing and he is learning. He is so smart and he is learning quickly! 

[Tobi Brenner]

Thanks to everyone for all your help and advice!  I have read so many conflicting things and being new to puppy ownership I am still trying to figure out what works and what does not. 

I slept downstairs last night and moved Cody's crate right next to the couch and he didn't make a sound. He was sooo good. I had originally read that they needed to be out of sight at night to learn to self-sooth so that's why I was keeping him downstairs.  This morning when it was time to get up, he was just lying there looking at me with those cute little eyes instead of crying and screaming.  So that's progress!  Thank you!  

I have read so many different things about feeding in the crate.  Some say do, some say don't...  This morning I changed my routine a bit in that after bringing him in from 'doing his business' first thing, I still put his food in the crate, but I left the door open and gave him about another 30 mins of food/play time in/out of the crate. After 30 mins I took him back out, walked him for another 20ish mins and then brought him back in. I did put him back in the crate when we came back in because I had things I had to do including mop the floor.  I really like the 'Place' idea and I am thinking about tethering him so he has limited options in terms of wandering.  

As far as the 2-3 hour time limit, I read that for every 1 month of the puppy's age, they can hold their bladder for about 1 hour. Honestly, that is not something that is hard and fast. I actually take his lead in that if he is getting up and ready to go out, I'll take him out. I am kind of trying to keep doing that. I love the bell idea and have already ordered some of those from amazon.  

Thanks again to everyone for all your help and advice.  Love this group!!! 

[Debb, Lucy & Oscar]

Glad to hear you had a peaceful night! I think that 'rule' of being able to hold it for 1 hr for every month of a puppy's age really only applies to crate time, and specifically when they're sleeping. A good rule of thumb is to always take a puppy outside whenever it comes out of it's crate, after it eats, after (and while) it plays, whenever it wakes from a nap and/or every 45min. to an hour. As for the feeding in the crate, we only did that the first day with each of our doodles to get them acclimated to the crate. After that we enticed them to play in the crate with toys with the door open. Okay, that's my cue to share this video of Lucy's 1st full day with us, enjoying her crate:

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