A "discussion" I had about breeding, "cross breeding"..Doodles and Puggles... Left me very confused!

[Brittany&Sami]

Hi! I wasn't sure if there was a group out there I could put this in..I'm not that educated on this topic. I'm a waitress at a diner owned by a Pug breeder (yes the diners theme is Dogs..hah), like most small diners theres always a debate going on. The other day my boss and his daughter were telling me stories about their pugs and Puggles came up. Jamie said he had taken one in a couple years back as a foster, but said he was never surprised when he saw Puggles, Labradoodles, and other mixes because people got them and then didn't want them. That they we're "bastards"because they were man made, that if it were up to nature a pug and a beagle would never mate..which is true...but if it weren't for human intervention..we wouldn't even have dogs.

He went on to say that this "cross breeding" of dogs (he, of course, used Poodles and Labradors as examples) was destroying the breeds and their standards, because when you mix two different breeds you never know what you will get. He said, "When you mix twp pure bred fawn pugs, you get a pure bred fawn pug. When you mix a poodle and a lab, you don't know what you'll get. When you mix two unknown fractions of poodle and lab with another unknown poodle and lab..who knows what you will get!" I really didn't know what to say (and was still a little hurt that he had called my Sami a "bastard") he added that he didn't doubt the dogs ability to love and learn but..idk I guess he just doesn't think this "cross breeding" is a good idea..

Now, I know that dogs today aren't because some caveman grabbed a wolf pup and started feeding it..it took thousands of years for a different type of "wolf" to evolve and become desensitized to humans and what not. I would assume that dogs like Pugs..Dobermans..German Shepards..are some mix of evolving cross breeding and all that..so..ugh what Jamie said confused me! To the point I'm not even sure where to start my questions..

My grandfather breeds Australian Labradoodles, next year I hope to really start playing apart in the whole process, I'd like to think we are apart of something good! My love for Doodles stems for my love of all dogs and animals in general..

I'd really love some opinions..I'm trying to learn all I can about dogs and breeding before I start school and start helping my grandpa..

[Jane, Rooney & Stuart]

You sound very smart and I would just not let this persons bad attitude bother you.  To each his own ya know.  I am not fond of Pugs - but that is just me.  I'm not a fan of Puggles either but I would never dream of being rude and telling that to some one.  I think your boss is just kinda a donkey - lol.  My Rooney is an Australian Labradoodle and he is just the sweetest dog that ever lived.  You would be doing something wonderful to help your Grandfather breed these dogs, mine has given me so much joy and he is just a baby.  You'd be making so many people just that happy!

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

Don't worry - we all run into this debate.  I think the mix of a retriever and a poodle makes sense because of their similar temperaments and smart, loyal nature.  And I think most of us love our doodles because they all look somewhat different! 

Bottom line:  as long as your grandpa is being a responsible breeder and health tests, I think you should go for helping him. 

 

Don't let the attitude of one sway your opinion of our mixed-breed mutts :)

[Angie, Hudson and Lily]

Don't let him bother you. We have the numerous breeds of dogs today because humans crossed them to achieve specific traits for different needs.

The Pug just didn't create itself: "The short-faced common ancestors of the Pug dog--the Pekingese and the Lion dog-developed in the Orient."

[Robyn, Greg and Snickers]

This discussion always bothers me as my husband had a goldendoodle back in the 1960s
How did this happen? Mrs. Cravitzs Standard Poodle hooked up with
Mrs Stevens Golden Retriever. Can there be anything more natural than that?
Now of course you want to make sure both parents are healthy etc. But
this argument is so specious as Purebreds were mixed at some point. 

This really hits home as Snickers is not a "true" goldendoodle but has the setter in him and there are some that have told us he is not a "real" goldendoodle. 

[Allyson, Peri & Taquito]

He is real doodle to me!  look at that face!!!  I grew up with an irish setter named Otis - best dog ever, very similar to my golden.  Temperaments so much alike. So you have a doodle IMO :)

[Adina P]

"...they we're "bastards"because they were man made, that if it were up to nature a pug and a beagle would never mate..which is true...but if it weren't for human intervention..we wouldn't even
have dogs."

 

That's hilarious to me.  Of COURSE they'd mate.  That's how unspayed/unneutered dogs make stray litters and oops litters.  Most of the mixes in shelters are due to one breed CHOOSING to mate with an unrelated breed. If it were up to dogs, they'd be mating with any dog ready to mate...they don't choose based on breed. 

 

But yes, HUMANS did do most of the work in creating breeds.  I don't see a problem with that.

 

"He went on to say that this "cross breeding" of dogs (he, of course, used Poodles and Labradors as examples) was destroying the breeds and their standards, because when you mix two different breeds you never
know what you will get."

 

This is also silly.  Even if the TOP of the line poodle breeder decided to breed their champion poodle to a low down crummy example of a labrador...it wouldn't affect the poodle's line.  IT doesn't change the poodle to a different breed.  All parent dogs retain their own breed...they don't magically morph into a new dog because they mated with a diff breed.  So it does NOTHING to destroy the pure breed and their standards.  And it's true you don't know exactly what you'll get, but you know a range of possibilities.  For example: Breed a pug and a beagle (not something I'm a fan of) and I can guarantee you won't get a long haired dog that stands 24" tall.  You'll get something between a pug and a beagle.  It's pretty simple.  

 

I get the disgust with people breeding anything for the sake of money.  THAT I don't like.  But at the same time, if breeding itself is not bad then as long as someone breeds responsibly (a mind toward temperament and health with proper testing to prove these things) and follows good breeding/selling guidelines...who cares?  Why is breeding ONE thing more noble than breeding a mix of things if those things can naturally mix anyway?  The only issue at that point is whether there is a market for what you're doing and there are actual buyers out there who will want the dog and give it a quality forever home.  Is the breeder adding something valuable into the world (yes all dogs have values, but you know what I mean, I hope) or just pumping out puppies with no real goal in mind?  Those are the factors that matter to me.

 

 

[Melissa & Porter]

Some people have ways of making sense of the universe and drawing lines in the sand that make no sense to me.  And talking about what "God intended" is going be full of debate no matter what the subject: war, poverty...dog breeding.

I would be curious to know if there has been a statistically significant increase in dogs in shelters since the popularity of cross- breeds/"designer dogs."  If there were, it in no way makes doodles or puggles, wrong in the "eyes of nature. "  It just speaks to the crummy nature of humans to covet things or seek profit without careful and humane planning.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I have way too much to say on this topic. :-) Here is a VERY summarized version of how I feel.

 

Both sides of the argument have merit. Yes, the designer dog fad is dangerous, bad, wrong, etc. Yes it encourages people to breed dogs on a whim and sell them for outrageous amounts of money. Yes, there are poodle mixes that make absolutely NO sense at all. That part of the argument is correct. But not all ALDs LDs and GDs are from bad breeders. Many are not. And some poodle cross mixes DO make sense, and are beneficial to mix. Like our lovely doodle breeds here on DK. 

 

You will encounter more doodle haters, I guarantee it. But you will meet a heck of a lot more people who absolutely love your pup. We get stopped everywhere we go because people want to pet and meet Darwin. They absolutely love him. It's the same with all of our doodles. And I think doodles speak louder than words. :-) I think it's really important that we, as owners of poodle mixes, educate people about adoption, or where to find a reputable breeder. Because we don't want to contribute to puppy mills in any way. I am horrified at the thought that someone will love Darwin, and go purchase a doodle from a pet store as a result. So I always make a point to tell them about DK, and about doodle rescues, so they can make an informed choice about where they get their dog. 

[Kaytlin and Cooper]

People have their breeds/breed mixes they love. Some love pure breeds (my MIL loves pure bred labs), some like the mix of qualities from several dogs (like us all here!). Some breed mixes make sense. Some dont.

 

I have met doodle haters, but I have met many many more doodle lovers - whenever I go on a hike, people stop and ask about Cooper. When she came to work with me last week, everyone commented on how lovely she was (personality and looks).

 

Every dog breed is "man made", and stems from selective breeding (this includes pure breeds). In nature, they choose to mate with different breeds (a dogs a dog to them!).

 

When it comes down to it, all dogs are the same species. All dogs are worthy of our love and respect.

[Lesley, Wellington & Bingley]

 

That they we're "bastards"because they were man made, that if it were up to nature a pug and a beagle would never mate...

 

This I find hilarious... the last creature that 'nature' would make is a Pug. Don't get me wrong - there are some lovely Pugs about - but you would be hard pushed to find a less natural breed.

 

And how on earth does this chap imagine that any 'breeds' came about in the first place...? Man certainly has made alot of things (for better but mostly for worse) and the Pug is definatley one of them.

 

I'd love to meet this guy - I think his arguement would soon find itself faltering =)

[Noble Vestal Labradoodles]

I am laughing hysterically at this because when a girl comes into heat she doesn't care what hops on her back and a male doesn't have a check list, if he can climb on he is gonna get some of that! How does she think we got all those random lab chow shepherd mixes in the pound.

[Kyoko]

He sounds really uneducated. Dogs do not know what breed he/she is!! Naturally mixed breed dogs always existed - called mutt!! I would just smile and go off doing the work at the diner, so that you won't get caught in the debate and feel uncomfortable working there.....