Dog park blues...

[Holly Doodle]

Ok, so I finally worked up enough courage to take Holly to the dog park. We don't have a fenced in yard so I thought it would be nice to let her run and play out in the open. We have always been hesitant due to hearing so many stories of dogs being attacked. We take her to doggie daycare 1 day a week and she has become very well socialized. She is very respectful and plays well with other dogs.

Anyways, we get there and there are two dogs, a deer hound and a small mixed lab, not sure what it was exactly. I asked the owners if there dogs would be ok with a rambunctious puppy and they said yes. Holly played great with the two dogs for about 10 minutes, when a couple showed up with three dobermans. They knew the lady with the other two dogs also. I also asked them if their dogs would be ok with an energetic puppy and they said yes. Everything was going great when suddenly their 3 year old doberman decided it did not like Holly and started to nip at her back and pin her down. Holly was whining and flinching. The owners yelled at their dog and told him to stop. He did for a few minutes, and then started in again picking on Holly. Within seconds, he bit her back and had his two other doberman buddies surrounding her barking and growling, and nipping at her face and back. Holly was crouched down whining with her tail between her legs. I attempted to step in front of her and shew them away. They ignored me and nipped at her back and continued growling and barking. Finally their owner stepped in and stood over Holly until they left her alone, which took a good 2-3 minutes of her yelling. I put Holly's leash on as soon as I got the chance and attempted to leave while the owner's distracted their dogs. We were almost out of the park when I heard the owners yelling their dog's name. I turned around, and the 3 year old doberman was charging at us from across the park. We took off running to the gate, got there just in time to get out and shut it behind us. It was a terrible experience!! She didn't end up with any cuts that I could find but she was so scared! I do not feel safe taking her back there....

Here are my concerns/questions:
1. What do I do in situations like this? Should I step in and pick her up? I've heard this is bad, but I don't know what else to do. I tried to step over her and back the dogs off which didn't help at all!
2. Can Holly be permanently traumatized from being attacked? She wasn't physically injured, but she was very frightened and whimpered every time they nipped/bit her.
3. Why are some dog owners so crappy?

Thanks for letting me vent and for any input!

[Julie B.]

How old is your puppy? This can create trauma if she is young.... Dog parks can be dicey.

[Karen, Jasper and Jackdoodle]

Laci, I'm sorry this happened to you & Holly. We hear a lot of dog park stories like this. Here are my thoughts on this.
The running & playing off-leash "out in the open" is one thing, and the playing with other dogs is another thing. "Socialization" has nothing to do with dogs playing with other dogs. If you want to get your puppy together with other dogs, the doggie daycare is a good idea, or getting together with a few other dogs & owners in someone's yard is another good idea. But do not go to a dog park for the purpose of letting your dog play with other dogs. That's how these situations happen.
If the dog park is large enough, take Holly there with the idea of focusing on letting her run & romp off-leash...you are going for exercise, not to play with other dogs, or to socialize, because the only socializing that can be accomplished at a dog park is amongst humans. You must keep moving with her. Go for a walk or a hike with her. Throw a ball or a frisbie...away from other dogs who seem to be congregating in packs. Walk the perimeter of the park if necessary. Try to avoid areas where people are standing around talking to each other while their dogs play (or fight, or bite, or whatever they're doing.)
Dogs together in any situation will try to sort out a hierarchy amongst themselves, and the dominant dogs are going to make sure any newcomers know who they are. I wouldn't put a puppy in that position of either having to show submission or challenge the pack for posittion. That's what the dobermans were doing. I don't think Holly will be permanently traumatized from this one incident, but some dogs can become reactive with other new dogs from this kind of experience, especially if it happens repeatedly.
If something like this happens again, pick her up and/or do anything else you have to do to protect her. I don't know who told you that's bad, but they are wrong. This was not a case of two dogs together in someone's home or yard who do need to work things out between themselves...in that case, you let them work it out. In a public setting amongst strange dogs where there is a chance of your dog being hurt, I would intervene.
And never, ever turn your back and run from a dog (or any other animal) who is charging.
Why some dog owners are so crappy...good question. I wish i knew. But I think part of it is the mistaken belief that dog parks are for standing around and yacking while your dogs "socialize", lol.

[Camilla and Darwin]

I agree that you should step in. If your dog is whining with her tail between her legs, she is not okay. It seems like letting this continue would just create a bad experience for her, and she will associate fear and discomfort with playing with other dogs. Unfortunately there are many dog owners that allow their dogs to be aggressive and badly behaved at dog parks... it is truly unfortunate. Luckily, we haven't had altercations with Darwin so far, but I am starting to consider solely setting up play dates and doing doggy daycare. People just aren't smart enough to leave their aggressive dogs home!

[Adina P]

1. If your dog is being harassed/attacked...however you can safely stop it is fine I think. It's not bad to step in there if another dog(s) is being a jerk...as long as you're not afraid of potentially getting hurt! The goal is safety of YOUR dog and you.

2. She might be spooked for a bit but it's not a question that can be answered with certainty. I would assume the best because most dogs bounce back just fine... AND...even on the remote chance she could be permanently traumatized...'permanent' is permanent and you can't fix it if that were the case (you'd be screwed) so no sense in entertaining that thought. Just get her back with normal, socially healthy dogs and don't believe any owners at dog parks =)

3. Considering some of the other stories others have reported...it seems that except for being stupid enough to bring THREE dobies to the dog park, this owner was better than the rest. She actually stepped in and told her dogs to stop and attempted to do something. Most just stand there and giggle or ignore things.

[Jane, Guinness and Murphy]

I'm so sorry this happened to Holly. I must admit I'm scared to death of dog parks for this very reason. We stick to Daycare and a supervised indoor dog park. Someone told me that if you carry a spray bottle with water and a little vinegar that you can use in just this circumstance, and you can safely enjoy the dog park. I've always been concerned about taking this approach. I'm curious if anyone else has heard of this or has done it.

[Stella]

I have two labradoodles with very different personalities! My older one is very sociable and easy going. When we take him to the dog park he zooms off, finds a playmate or another owner to play fetch with and I don't see him until it is time to go home (although, that doesn't mean I am not watching him to make sure he isn't doing anything he shouldn't!!).

My younger one is a very highly strung and nervous, he was attacked at the dog park back in the summer by a toy possessive Collie - he had tried to pick up its frisbee. The owner of the collie couldn't care less that her dog grabbed our puppy and was attacking him. We debated if we would ever go back, as it has seriously affected his behaviour around other dogs - he is now very fearful which he masks behind aggression with dogs he doesn't know.

But, our other dog loves it so much and we didn't want the younger one to keep getting worse around strange dogs. So, we still go probably about one a month, and only when I know it will be quiet. The worst part is getting in through the gate where the dogs crowd when they know someone is coming in. I let the older one go first to draw them away and then I go in with the younger one. I immediately walk to the far corner of the dog park away from the crowd of other owners and theor dogs, who always gather at the picnic table. We play fetch together and when he is feeling comfrtable he will follow our other dog up to run with the others. But, I always stay at the far end of park where I walk the fence, that way if he is feeling overwhelmed he can come back to me away from the other dogs. It has taken time, but he is doing much better. He even played fetch with a group of four dogs a few weeks ago, and had a young puppy following him around!!

Wherever you go, there will always be bad owners and their dogs. But, don't let this experience put you off going. If she goes to daycare that will help to keep her confidant in the company of other dogs. Follow the advice given by Karen, go to the park when it is quiet, don't stand with the other owners, and find a quiet corner of the park to play with Holly. Some parks have a separate area for puppies, it may be worth looking to see if there is one near you. If someones dog is giving yours a hard time, I would step in anyway I feel necessary, and find out who the owner of the problem dog(s) is. If it is a repeat offender you can report them to whoever is responsible for the park or to animal control.

Good luck!!

[Tammy & Gracie]

I go to a dogpark with Gracie at least 2 or 3 times weekly. It's hard to know what to do when you have these situations. You can physically block the offending dogs from yours but I will side with the do not pick her up group. When you pick them up I have seen that escalate into a jump and grab situation for the offending dogs. It's kind of like dangling a toy in front of them. I would just leave slowly and deliberately without running. And if you are ever uncomfortable, leave. Listen to your intuition. I would doubt there will be any permanent trauma for the pup since she wasn't injured. But she may be a little shy around bigger dogs for a bit. Is there a small dog and large dog side to your park? I know some people with puppies take them to the small side. However, I could never take Gracie over to the small side because she has always been a very rough player. Some owners at the park have no clue about their dogs behavior. It makes mne really angry sometimes. I like to visit with the humans too, but I do walk around, away from the group if there seems to be serious territorial or group agression going on. Gracie does become uncomfortable if more than 1 dog attacks (in play) at one time. And I always keep a close eye on her and know where she is and who she is with. If you keep going it will be more pleasant for you both. After you get to know the regulars you won't have to worry much and will know when to stay away from the troublemakers. I will actually leave the park if certain dogs come in that I have seen cause problems in the past. But that comes from experience. Keep going and just keep a watchful eye on your pup. Most of the time it is a great way to tire out your pup. Gracie has so much fun when she visits! Maybe when you see people that have dogs that play well with Holly, ask when they visit and try to return those times. As Holly matures many of these issues will work out and you and she will have less fear. And it's true that dogs sense fear and will hassle the subordinate dog. Also the water bottle idea would really help. That unexpected spray will stop most dogs in their tracks. Anyway, I'm rambling now. I hope you give it more chances and make some good play friends there.

[Sue, Murphy and Bella ()*o*()]

Dog Parks can be intimidating to humans as well as puppies. I don't go often since we do have a fenced yard and a large park just behind our house to let our two run pretty freely, but when I do go I always notice how owners "check out" other dogs coming in and try to assess the nature of that dog for several minutes.
Some will actually call their own dog to them to keep them close while the new member gets acquainted with other dogs and to see it's reactions. I have taken that example and used it wisely and it seems to have off set any real drama at our local parks. If the new dog appears to be a trouble maker, we leave or go to the more quiet dog area that is seperated by fences.
I would certainly step in and rescue my pup against 3 doberman's if I could do so safely. And I'd have no problem spraying them with vinager water if I had it on hand. Running did seem to be your only out at the time, but that could've ended very differently had they caught up to you, so I agree with the NO RUNNING AWAY principle. Speaking from a person who was biten by a dog at a young age. Maybe go with her but keep her on leash for a while to let other dogs come close and get familiar with her while you are within safe reach of her for a time or two before going totally off leash and letting her wander and have trouble find her. ? Just a suggestion. If you want to continue with taking her to the dog park that is.

[Frannie & Callie]

That sounds like a scary experience for both of you, but I wouldn't give up on the dog park! You did everything right...you talked to the owners and de-fused the situation as quickly as possible. Callie got attacked by two large dogs at the dog park that's inside my subdivision (these dogs are both lab/shephard/boxer mixes). Callie was completely freaked out and I had some not-nice words with the dogs' owner (she accused Callie of "provoking" her dogs). I was worried that she would be scared of dogs after that, so I took her to the bigger dog parks. For about two weeks, she wouldn't leave my side at the parks and wouldn't play with other dogs. I still kept taking her though and at about the two week mark she loosened back up and was her frisky, playful self. I have to admit that if there are a large number of dobies, pit bulls, or boxers (esp if I can see that the male dogs aren't fixed), we don't linger at the park - there just always seems to be an issue when there are large numbers of these strong, energetic dogs (who aren't always properly trained by their owners to be good citizens).

[Maryann,Roo and Tigger]

I am so sorry you had such a horrible experience. Dog parks can be dicey, mostly because too many owners do not understand AT ALL how to manage their dogs at a dog park. Owners should stay on their feet and near their dogs, but changing location all the time. Staying in one location, particularily sitting in one location, day after day and that owner's dog thinks that seat belongs to him. Territorial dogs can make a real issue out of this. Owners with more than one dog should be in control of their dogs and prohibit pack behavior. If you have reasonally well trained dogs this is not as hard as it sounds.

In a situation like this by all means reach in and scoop up Holly if you can. Also call in a low loud voice for the owner to get the #@%$ over here. Ask that owner to leave with their dogs. Never run away from a chasing dog as it triggers the prey instinct. Stand your ground and look down and sideways.

Dogs tend to live in the moment, so I think permanently traumatized is unlikely. You are probably the one is who is going to be the most fearful next time, so be sure to not transmit this to Holly. Try going with Holly into controlled situations, only one or two dogs at the park, and/or a different park. Leave before you stress out. Another way to say that is to leave while Holly and you are still enjoying the park.

Finally if you return to that park and that idiot owner shows up again, ask them to not bring in their dogs, reminding them of their dogs inappropriate behavior last time and point to the rules. That dog park is for you and other well-minded and behaved dogs. I can guarantee that you are not the only one that has had a bad experience with those three dogs. You will be doing you and everyone else a favor.

[Holly Doodle]

Thanks for all of the comments and advice! Holly is 7 months old. I didn't take her to the dog park to play with other dogs, I took her there to run and play out in the open without a leash. The problem is that she is very social and wants to play with any dog she's sees so it's tough to stay away from other dogs in the park. I did try to stay close to her and I attempted to call her to come when they started to pick on her but she was too excited and still wanted to play with them.
I really like the idea of vinegar water, if we do go back we'll have to bring that with us just to be safe. I agree we should try to stay on the edges of the park away from other dogs, we will try that next time too. I know we need to work on coming when called. She does it well in most situations but this proved to me that we need to continue training for better consistency.

As for now I don't think we'll be returning to the dog park. It was scary to see her in that situation and to feel helpless. I am very glad the owner finally stepped in, but she waited far too long. We do have one other dog park in town, but it is much smaller. We may try that one next time. Hopefully her canine friends at doggie daycare will remind her how good dogs behave and help her overcome any fear she may have developed towards big dogs. Thanks again for all of the advice, you are all always so helpful and supportive :).

[Heidi]

Bear and I frequent a local dog park for excercise and once in a great while an aggressive dog will be there and Bear is the one they always pick on. Maybe it's age, he is 8 months old. But my trainer told me to get citranella spray. It doesn't hurt the dog like a pepper spray would, but dogs don't like the smell. They sell it at Petsmart in a small can that fits in my pocket. I am now prepared for the next time. I haven't had to use it yet, but I have it with me just in case.

But at the dog park we go to, if a dog acts out aggressively, that dogs is the one to leave. The dog needs to learn that behavior is not tolerated and he can't be at the park unless they act appropriately. I'm not sure how you can get that going at your dog park but it's the right thing to do.

Good luck.