Raw Food Eating Doodles

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Comment by LucyR on June 28, 2010 at 5:21pm

I don't worry about the little bones in the salmon. I usuallly take out the big spinal cord bones if it's easy to do. Otherwise Ozzie just spits them out if he finds them. My feeling is that if there is conflicting information, err on the side of caution. On the other hand, the sled dogs in Alaska eat raw salmon. They look pretty healthy to me, but the down side is that they stink to high heaven. We're not gonna go that route!

Comment by Laura, Ruby & Sam on June 28, 2010 at 5:12pm

Now I'm really glad I didn't get up the nerve to do the raw fish! And I feel like I do a lot of research online before I give her anything new, but there is so much conflicting information it's hard to know what's right!

We also do the canned sardines and salmon-- she loves it!!! I also stuff a kong with the canned salmon, then freeze it and give it to her outside as a treat, fantastic!

I was a little nervous when I saw the canned salmon had bones, but when I went to pick them out they crumbled and I realized they must be fine-- is that right?

Thanks, so glad to have so many people contributing to raw feeding info!

Comment by LucyR on June 28, 2010 at 4:54pm

Another thing....for Ozzie I always have to remove the skin from the chicken or other bird. It has a lot of fat and that gives him diarrhea. I do leave the skin on wings and necks however. Turkey necks are also a big favorite of his.

Comment by LucyR on June 28, 2010 at 4:53pm

Here are a few reasons not to feed raw fish. If you google, you will find more cons than pros for feeding raw fish. Save those yummy shellfish for people food!

1. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1659&aid=1030

2. "Fishing can be wonderful recreation, but sharing the catch with your dog
can be an act of kindness that kills. Salmon Poisoning Disease is a
potentially fatal condition seen in dogs that eat certain types of raw fish.

3. Clams have a lot of calcium and protein. Probably not the best food.

4. Raw fish also have the potential problem of bones causing choking.
Salmon (salmonid fish) and other anadromous fish (fish that swim upstream to
breed) can be infected with a parasite called Nanophyetus salmincola.


Overall, the parasite is relatively harmless. The danger occurs when the
parasite itself is infected with a rickettsial organism called Neorickettsia
helminthoeca. It’s this microorganism that causes salmon poisoning.

“Salmon poisoning occurs most commonly west of the Cascade mountain range,”
says Dr. Bill Foreyt, a veterinary parasitologist at Washington State
University’s College of Veterinary Medicine. He adds, “Canids (dogs) are the
only species susceptible to salmon poisoning. That’s why cats, raccoons and
bears eat raw fish regularly with out consequence.” Generally clinical
signs appear within six days of a dog eating an infected fish....

Common symptoms of salmon poisoning include:

* vomiting
* lack of appetite
* fever
* diarrhea
* weakness
* swollen lymph nodes
* dehydration



If untreated, death usually occurs within fourteen days of eating the infected fish.

Ninety percent of dogs showing symptoms die if they are not treated. … .

Thankfully, salmon poisoning is treatable if it’s caught in time. A key to its diagnosis is

telling your veterinarian that your dog ate raw fish. If you have a dog that wanders, or raids trash cans and you are unsure of what it’s eaten; consider the possibility of salmon poisoning. Salmon poisoning can be diagnosed with a fecal sample or a needle sample of a swollen lymph node. Detecting the parasite’s eggs as they are shed in the feces confirms its presence. The rickettsial organism can be detected in a needle sample from a swollen lymph node. The combination of symptoms, and the presence of parasite eggs or the rickettsial organisms, are enough to justify treatment. …“

"Don't feed raw fish to your dog. Cook fish thoroughly or deep-freeze it for
a minimum of 2 weeks to destroy the parasite before feeding it to your dog."

"...If you chose to feed salmonids [Salmon (fish)] to a dog, the fish must be cooked or pressure canned

.. Salmon Poisoning Disease (SPD) is a misnomer. It does not result from from ingestion of a toxin, rather it results from infection by a rickettsial organism,Neorickettsia helminthoeca. SPD has been known since the early 19th century in North America. It had been observed that dogs that ate raw salmon frequently died however the connection between the fluke and the rickettsia was not established at this time.(1) [(1) Smith, J.M., Dr. "Nanophyetus salmincola", World of Parasites,
It is unusual in that the rickettsial organism does not directly infect the dog but is instead carried by a parasite, a trematode (flatworm or fluke) called Nanophyteus salmincola through two intermediate hosts first: freshwater snails and salmonid fish (salmon, trout, steelhead)….”

"... dogs and coyotes are considered incidental hosts and haven't evolved ways to counter invasion by the rickettsia.

I would not feed any part of a raw salmon to a dog. That is the way to avoid the disease. Offal is more likely to be infected than meat, but any part of the fish could harbor these critters. ... The disease can result in a very sick dog - high fevers are common, gastrointestinal signs often occur, lymph nodes enlarge, dogs dehydrate and basically do all they can to die. Sometimes salmon poisoning is difficult to distinguish from parvo. .. "

"Raw salmon (mainly Pacific and fresh water) can contain rickettsial
parasites. Rickettsia is easily treated with antibiotics, but if untreated is fatal in 7-10 days."
"Nanophyetus salmincola or N. schikhobalowi are the names, respectively, of the North American and Russian troglotrematoid trematodes (or flukes). Nanophyetiasis is the name of the human disease caused by these flukes. At least one newspaper referred to the disease as "fish flu." N. salmincola is responsible for the transmission of Neorickettsia helminthoeca, which causes
an illness in dogs that may be serious or even fatal."

Comment by Robert Johnson & Joan Milligan on June 28, 2010 at 4:36pm

So far, we are only able to get real green tripe from our neighbor (hunter). Gizzards, hearts & livers are a regular addition. Again, I buy on sale and place in ice cube trays so I can grab one as needed. What paracites are in freshly caught fish? We live on the eastern shore of Virginia, and, as you, we have an abundance of fish, oysters,crab, clams, etc

Comment by LucyR on June 28, 2010 at 4:04pm

No, I would not give whole raw fish, especially salmon. They frequently have parasites. Most raw feeders caution against raw fish. Canned sardines and salmon are great. I always look for cans on sale and then stock up. Ozzie loves his sardines! I also bought a meat grinder, but since we have the FeedThis service, haven't used it much. It was great for grinding up a whole chicken and mixing with veggies or whatever. You should also be able to get various gizzards, hearts, livers in Oriental Market. Ozzie LOVEs those too. I just give him a little with his meal from when I have it around. He also loves green tripe. I use the canned, but if you can find fresh GREEN tripe, not the white, it is great! Wear a gas mask. It smells horrid.

Comment by Robert Johnson & Joan Milligan on June 28, 2010 at 3:55pm

Lucy> Do you give qhole fish? Or canned? Angus likes canned sardines (in water), but I have not given hime whole raw fish--what do you think? I think it is ok, but not sure...

Comment by Robert Johnson & Joan Milligan on June 28, 2010 at 3:53pm

Lucy> I can not believe that I have not thought of Oriental markets till you mentioned it. I bet they have all kinds of stuff that Angus would love. No one really does raw around here, and we have been cautioned by our vet/friends/etc against it. But years ago my father raised cow dogs, and they did well on a raw diet, supplemented with the food that we did not cook. It just seems right to me, and Angus will go for the chicken leg over the kibble every time!

Comment by LucyR on June 28, 2010 at 3:18pm

I am 99% sure they would have duck wings, as well as duck heads and feet-if you are so inclined. Lots of pork parts, too. Ozzie weighs 47 pounds. His food comes in 12 oz cartons and he gets 2 meals a day. I get the smaller cartons because he does get training treats and other goodies during the day. I also supplement with eggs and fish on a regular basis. You should just google canine raw food and your area and see what comes up. Also call pet stores. Many times there are local suppliers or coops.

Comment by Robert Johnson & Joan Milligan on June 28, 2010 at 3:10pm

We do have lots of oriental markets near here. that is a good idea. They might even have duck wings. What is your feed menue/schedule?

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